17 replies to this topic

[camay2327]

I think the instructor was at fault in this case.

 

Girl, 9, kills Arizona shooting instructor with Uzi in accident

A 9-year-old girl accidentally shot and killed her shooting instructor at an Arizona range with an Israeli-made Uzi submachine gun when the weapon's strong recoil caused her to lose control of her aim, police said on Tuesday.

 

They said that Charles Vacca, 39, had been standing next to the girl at the Last Stop shooting range in White Hills near the Nevada border on Monday morning showing her how to fire the automatic weapon.

 

// more //

 

http://news.yahoo.co...-202638510.html

 

[Chris]

This was a poor parenting decision....   No way should a kid be messing around with a full auto weapon.   At best a 9 year old should only be operating a .22 rifle from the bench with close adult supervision.   Chris

[4thgenFolsomite]

stupid is as stupid does.  there are many victims in this horrible accident, including that poor girl who will forever have to live with this.

[supermom]

Imagine the emotional damage this has caused this little girl. 

 

Too bad about the instructor, last time I looked in news he was critical in hospital. 

They said he took a shot to the head.

 

prayers to all involved. an unfortunate accident.

[camay2327]

Imagine the emotional damage this has caused this little girl. 

 

Too bad about the instructor, last time I looked in news he was critical in hospital. 

They said he took a shot to the head.

 

prayers to all involved. an unfortunate accident.

The article I posted said the instructor was killed.

[Redone]

Many red flags here.   The girl was very tiny to be firing a weapon that is not stabilized by a shoulder stock.   1 practice shot , then full auto also not enough  IMO.

 

It's very sad all the way around, but the statements that the instructor should've known better is true. 

[bordercolliefan]

My quote button isn't working, but I agree with 4thGen:  Stupid is as stupid does. 

 

This is really the product of America's pro-gun fetish according to which every American ought to have a gun on them, everywhere and at all times.  Some idiot will (and apparently did) conclude that this includes putting guns in the hands of children. 

 

I guess that puts us in the company of Sierra Leone, if anyone has read "A Long Way Gone"...

[chris v]

My quote button isn't working, but I agree with 4thGen:  Stupid is as stupid does. 
 
This is really the product of America's pro-gun fetish according to which every American ought to have a gun on them, everywhere and at all times.  Some idiot will (and apparently did) conclude that this includes putting guns in the hands of children. 
 
I guess that puts us in the company of Sierra Leone, if anyone has read "A Long Way Gone"...

Or not...

[supermom]

My quote button isn't working, but I agree with 4thGen:  Stupid is as stupid does. 

 

This is really the product of America's pro-gun fetish according to which every American ought to have a gun on them, everywhere and at all times.  Some idiot will (and apparently did) conclude that this includes putting guns in the hands of children. 

 

I guess that puts us in the company of Sierra Leone, if anyone has read "A Long Way Gone"...

mmm, I think you're kinda over reaching on what most people consider a pro gun stance. 

 

Every person I know who is sane and pro gun, believes in safety first. 

I am not too sure I can say that this instructor was being sane. Not to demean his death, but...- Just because someone says they are an instructor does not necessarily mean they are a good instructor. Heck, just look at California's public schools...

[Bill Z]

I agree, "Stupid is as stupid does",  but this tragic accident is not the result of "America's Pro-gun Fetish".

I was smaller and younger when my father first taught me how to shoot a gun.  This accident strongly rests on the instructor who at least paid for his mistake with his life and not someone else's.  I'm a grown man and know the difficulty of controlling a fully automatic weapon.  That girl was obviously not trained in how quickly that gun would start climbing from the recoil.  It wasn't her age that was the problem, it was her small size and her lack of proper training for the weapon in question.

[supermom]

BillZ is back!!!!!!!

 

[TruthSeeker]

Bordercolliefan, this has nothing to do with gun control. It has everything to do with intelligence or lack of it.

 

The parents were wrong to put a large caliber automatic gun in their child's hands. The range was wrong to let anyone under 18 shoot an automatic weapon of any kind.  The child would have done fine with a .22 rifle and had a good time.

 

The only thing that should change, is that from now on only ages 18 and up should be allowed to shoot automatic weapons in Nevada.

mmm, I think you're kinda over reaching on what most people consider a pro gun stance. 

 

Every person I know who is sane and pro gun, believes in safety first. 

I am not too sure I can say that this instructor was being sane. Not to demean his death, but...

 

- Just because someone says they are an instructor does not necessarily mean they are a good instructor. Heck, just look at California's public schools...

 

^^^ What she said

[The Average Joe]

I feel really bad for the girl.

 

I have seen "kids" behave perfectly safely around firearms. OTOH I have seen adults behave recklessly.

 

As anyone who has ever shot an UZI will attest, they are extremely difficult to control on full auto.  It's simple physics. A relatively short, relatively light barrel has a much larger angular movement than a longer, heavier barrel. That's why a much more powerful .50 cal machine gun doesn't just point at the sky when you fire it.

 

It was certainly not age appropriate. I have seen grown men spraying bullets with UZI's on auto. 

 

And BTW, you need a very expensive and difficult to get license to have a full auto weapon.

[john]

Parents of the Year... I'm not even sure a 9-year old should be handling a .22 rifle, but I'd let that slide (begrudgingly) as long as it was under very close supervision. An uzi? What was next for her to try out, a grenade? There is no scenario whatsoever where I could justify putting an uzi in a 9-year old's hands. Not only did this pass a parent or guardian as a good idea, but an adult instructor as well. Unfortunately, the instructor paid for it with his life, and that child will have to deal with this her whole life. 

[supermom]

Well, at YMCA camp when I was 9- I was allowed to shoot a .22. I see kids as young as 7 going out with parents to the range and shooting. It really is a lifestyle. A certain way of training your children to behave in public and teaching respect for inanimate vs. live objects. ie; it is a gun vs. it is an extension of you. [You point your finger- then your weapon becomes an extension of your finger reaching out and touching the target- with deadly accuracy] 

 

Kids who go out shooting often- are taught that picking up a weapon as an inanimate object can have dire consequences. 

 

But-- (this is a big but!) No family I have ever known; has ever jumped into first time shooting range/lesson with their kid and allowed them to use an automatic weapon.  I don't know if that is what the family in the story did- but I could not imagine a family giving an instructor - or asking an instructor- permissions or contract to allow a fresh face to handle an automatic weapon. And to be totally honest- I absolutely can not imagine any instructor worth his salt- being swayed by parents inquiries or monies- and allowing an inexperienced shooter access to an automatic weapon. 

 

I can tell you that my 7 year old niece can stop her 1300 lb Pinto on a dime, flag and beginner barrel, and pleasure ride; but her hands and wrist are nowhere near strong enough to control an uzi. Neither can my 17 year old daughter. 

 

So yeah, I think that there was a very serious lack of adult rational thinking going on - or the story is not entirely the truth- that an instructor put an automatic weapon in the hands of a nine year old. 

 

On a side bar- I wonder if that shooting range will face any legal consequences for allowing that instructor on the range? I would guess it depends on the State's laws in what constitutes responsibility between the instructor and the facility he was allowed to use.