5 replies to this topic

[Chris]

Interesting story.....   I am a big fan of the new drone technology......   Being used for surveillance over a crime ridden apartment complex, low income, section 8 I am sure......  Your thoughts...?

 

Sacramento residents upset about government drone patrolling neighborhood, ‘looking down on homes’

 

https://www.theblaze...g-down-on-homes

 

Where did the drone come from?
Residents learned this week that the drone is owned by the Sacramento Housing and Redevelopment Agency. The agency manages the nearby Alder Grove and Marina Vista apartment complexes. Both complexes have experienced serious crimes, including a fatal shooting in January and a triple homicide in 2016, the report stated.

“We initiated the drone program in order to enhance the safety and security of our residents,” said LaTanna Jones, the assistant director for the housing agency.

Jones told the TV station the 5-foot-long aircraft operates between 6 p.m. and 6 a.m. and has already discovered illegal dumping and trespassing.

Reportedly, the drone pilots have privacy protection measures in place.

“The drones are programmed so that they do not catch any footage until they get to about 200 feet in the air,” Jones said.

The housing authority maintains that the program is legal. But neighbors say it’s invading their privacy and is an inappropriate way to police a residential community.

“This is not an appropriate way to police the community,” Mattox said.

The drone is part of a 90-day pilot project that costs about $20,000, according to the report. Some residents want the Sacramento City Council to disband the program.

[The Average Joe]

One wonders if they would be so outraged if there were monitored security cameras at the complex... I am uncomfortable with drone usage for surveillance as it violates the 4th Amendment in my opinion.  I don't feel secure in my house if there is a drone overseer.  I recently had a drone hovering150 feet or so over my backyard. My wife and sister in law were lounging by the pool. They yelled at us, and we went out and flipped the drone the bird which then took off.  Not cool. Even worse if it would have been "the man."

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,

[Who_Do_You_Trust]

One wonders if they would be so outraged if there were monitored security cameras at the complex... I am uncomfortable with drone usage for surveillance as it violates the 4th Amendment in my opinion.  I don't feel secure in my house if there is a drone overseer.  I recently had a drone hovering150 feet or so over my backyard. My wife and sister in law were lounging by the pool. They yelled at us, and we went out and flipped the drone the bird which then took off.  Not cool. Even worse if it would have been "the man."

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,

 

Currently, FAA rules say that it's illegal to operate a drone over private property.  OK to operate over public property (with some restrictions).  

 

So, think it thru.  Someone drives on a public street or walks on a public sidewalk, peers into your window to see what's inside.  Is this a violation of your privacy?  Probably not.  No difference if someone is operating a drone over public property and looks into you windows or onto your property.  If you make no efforts to conceal what's happening on your private property and someone sees it from public property, you have no case for invasion of privacy.   

 

And even if the drone flys over your private property, you have an iffy case.  If you lived near the airport, every plane that takes off or lands could fly directly over your private property and people could look into your yard.  Try to sue Southwest Airlines for violating your privacy and it'll get tossed out of court.  It's the same story with drones.  The basic issue is how much airspace above your property is considered "your" private property.  In most cases, not much.  And it's because of the way aircraft are operated in this country.

 

Of course, you could pull out your shotgun and shoot the drone down, but then you'll be charged with shooting a firearm within the city limits, which is misdemeanor in Calif.  And if you actually hit the drone, you're in very serious trouble.  It's a federal felony.  Drones are classified as "aircraft" under FAA rules, exactly the same classification that's used for a 737 aircraft.  So if you shoot a drone down, in the eyes of the federal court, it's exactly the same as shooting down a 737.  And if the drone you shot down falls on someone and kills them, you'll be charged with manslaughter or murder, plus destruction of private property (the drone).  Good idea to not go there.  

[The Average Joe]

Your interpretations are incorrect.

 

My fence is an effort for privacy and prevents line of sight by a public person. I'm sure the police would be interested if someone had a scissor lift on the sidewalk or street and was using it to peer into backyards or upstairs windows. Unlike drones, planes fly substantially higher, and do not have cameras specifically made to look down.

 

Recreational drones fall under an exemption from the FAA. As long as it falls into this defined category, it is not the same as an aircraft (737 in your example) I have been flying R/c since the late 70s (although I took a loooong break). I hated registering with the FAA because of all the drones

 

Fly in accordance with the Special Rule for Model Aircraft (Public Law 112-95 Section 336). Under this rule, operators must:

1. Register their UAS with the FAA
2. Fly for hobby or recreational purposes only
3. Follow a community-based set of safety guidelines
4. Fly the UAS within visual line-of-sight
5. Give way to manned aircraft
6. Provide prior notification to the airport and air traffic control tower, if one is present, when flying within 5 miles of an airport
7. Fly UAS that weigh no more than 55 lbs. unless certified by a community-based organization

Makes me want to move out to the county. Drone over your acreage? Blam, blam. Let the person come on by and collect it. I'll pay for a new one, and know exactly who I need to keep an eye on.  I'll just tell the cops I was practicing my sporting clays...

[Who_Do_You_Trust]

Your interpretations are incorrect.

 

My fence is an effort for privacy and prevents line of sight by a public person. I'm sure the police would be interested if someone had a scissor lift on the sidewalk or street and was using it to peer into backyards or upstairs windows. Unlike drones, planes fly substantially higher, and do not have cameras specifically made to look down.

 

Recreational drones fall under an exemption from the FAA. As long as it falls into this defined category, it is not the same as an aircraft (737 in your example) I have been flying R/c since the late 70s (although I took a loooong break). I hated registering with the FAA because of all the drones

 

Fly in accordance with the Special Rule for Model Aircraft (Public Law 112-95 Section 336). Under this rule, operators must:

1. Register their UAS with the FAA
2. Fly for hobby or recreational purposes only
3. Follow a community-based set of safety guidelines
4. Fly the UAS within visual line-of-sight
5. Give way to manned aircraft
6. Provide prior notification to the airport and air traffic control tower, if one is present, when flying within 5 miles of an airport
7. Fly UAS that weigh no more than 55 lbs. unless certified by a community-based organization

Makes me want to move out to the county. Drone over your acreage? Blam, blam. Let the person come on by and collect it. I'll pay for a new one, and know exactly who I need to keep an eye on.  I'll just tell the cops I was practicing my sporting clays...

 

Some mis-interpretations on your part:

 

1)  I can look into your yard all I want.   Think about it.  What if I have a two story house right next door to your backyard?  I can look out my second story window directly into your yard and at you lounging beside your pool.  Am I violating your privacy?  Noooooo   Same with a drone.  One other point - Sac County building code limits interior yard fence height to seven feet, so you can't even raise your fence to keep me from looking into your yard.

 

2)  Since there are no statutes that describe the ownership of the airspace above your property, whether or not someone can operate a UAV over your house is undetermined.  You may be powerless to stop it.  "Property" is defined as land or material objects, not the air above your house.

 

3)  18 U.S. Code § 32 - Destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities states:

 

     (a) Whoever willfully—

(1) sets fire to, damages, destroys, disables, or wrecks any aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States or any civil aircraft used, operated, or employed in interstate, overseas, or foreign air commerce;

(c )  ...with an apparent determination and will to carry the threat into execution shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both 

 

UAV is covered under definition of "aircraft".

 

4)  There are numerous cases of people trying to shoot drones down.  In the vast majority of these cases, the shooter has been arrested and charged with reckless endangerment, discharging a firearm within city limits, and/or destruction of property.   this may not occur in jurisdictions where specific rules have been adopted regarding drone operations.  I don't believe Folsom has any special rules on drones.

 

How about this - just ask the drone operator to stop.  It'll save a lot of grief.  

[The Average Joe]

Yep.  But a "model" aircraft (recreational drone) is not considered the same as an actual aircraft unless it is over 55 pounds and commercially operated.