122 replies to this topic

[bordercolliefan]

Can't dig a post hole, can't change their own oil... but can invent a smartphone that to people of my generation is pure magic, and that everyone in the world wants.

Sure, it's great to be handy, but the "economic engine" is the people who can invent devices and applications the rest of us can't even dream of. They in turn keep the economy humming by paying other people to mow their lawns, make their food, watch their children, etc. There's a ripple effect.

Don't be bitter about it... just keep a sense of wonder and delight at all the new things invented by folks younger than ourselves.

[The Average Joe]

The country is not ready for a female president yet, Grumpy old Guy?! We are behind the times on this. Many other countries have had female leaders, including Margaret Thatcher and Angela Merkel. It is embarrassing that we are followers instead of leaders in this area.

Really curious what the GOP is going to do. They have to mastermind a way to get rid of Trump. Now a bunch of party leaders are saying they won't attend the nominating convention. What good will that do? Don't they need to get in there and make some rule changes to put forward a respectable candidate?

I don't give a rat's behind if the President is male or female, black or white, old or young.  I do care that they have a belief in capitalism. I care that they want to stop printing money.  I care that they are more concerned with doing their job than keeping their job.

 

When you can show me that candidate, I'm all on board. Electing a woman just because she is a woman, or a black/hispanic/whatever is stupid and is just as sexist and racist as the claims on the GOP.

You are wrong about the 30 somethings GOG. Most polls show millennials loving Sanders/big government only until they actually have jobs and have to PAY for all the "free" giveaways the socialism loving pols are so happy to espouse.

 

And as for demographics, yeah, the Dems are great at marketing an inferior product.  If only the populace could learn to tell s#$* from shinola.

 

Reps are a mess. Instead of focusing on sound fiscal policy, they focus on idiotic stuff like transvestite bathrooms.  Of course, the old guard GOP won't go down without screwing the ship. They ate the Tea Party (fiscal conservatives) and killed themselves with the ridiculous offerings for President the last several cycles.  They are responsible for the rise of Trump and the death of the party. Part of me says, "Good riddance to bad baggage," but in the big picture, I feel the damage to America will be exacerbated by ANY Dem candidate.

 

As for the Dems being the party of inclusion, I must have missed the young and people of color at the debates.  All I saw was an old white socialist, and an old white 1% rich woman.

[2 Aces]

Kudos to Chris and Joe for their sentiments.

But hey guys, just realize you are trying to be reasonable and rational with LEFTISTS!!...

Ain't gonna work, but I admire your attempt.

[bordercolliefan]

Once again, Average Joe gets the prize for most thoughtful conservative contributor. Not saying I agree with all your points, but nice to see ideas and opinions rather than vitriol and name-calling.

[2 Aces]

And you get the prize for the most inane and clueless Leftist contributor.

No offense.

[bordercolliefan]

And you get the prize for the most inane and clueless Leftist contributor.

No offense.

Now now, don't be jealous of Average Joe. Maybe one day you will be able to rise to his level. Miracles do happen!

[2 Aces]

And maybe one day you will wake up from your Leftist haze and join sane Americans who realize that the Obama experiment is a disaster.

Miracles do happen...even for you, Hillary.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

To those in here who consider themselves part of the conservative sphere, or right-leaning, or tea party, or whatever...please understand that if others criticize some feature of your world, it doesn't automatically make them card-carrying, left wing whacko, socialist liberals.  It is indeed possible to have a mixture of both liberal and conservative beliefs.  I'm a good example:

 

-  I'm a huge advocate for personal responsibility (conservative)

-  I believe there are members of our society who truly need assistance from the gov't.  Either they've been dealt a bad hand from Mother Nature, or a victim of very bad luck (liberal)

-  However, I also believe that many gov't assistance programs go WAY too far and encourage able-bodied people to become dependent upon them (conservative) 

-  I'm a strong believer of protecting the environment (liberal)

-  I'm very appreciative of our capitalistic system.  It has served me extremely well (conservative)

-  There are some things that SHOULD NOT be operated with a capitalistic objective.  Healthcare and education are among them (liberal)

 

Sadly, our politics have become so polarized that people with beliefs that extend into both liberal and conservative worlds are demonized as "fence-sitters", ambivalent, or lacking conviction.  The idea that compromise often is the best solution, particularly in the halls of gov't, has disappeared from the political world.  Protecting the extremist ideology becomes the top priority, even if it brings on the demise of the nation.  That we have candidates for prez that represent only the extremist views of both sides shows the folly of this fringe based politics. 

 

Finally,  I agree with Bordercolliefan regarding the younger generation.  I'm fortunate enough to be in an industry where I get to actually enter the halls and conference rooms of companies like Apple, Google, Microsoft, Intel, Tesla, SpaceX, Medtronic.  I get to work with these people, have lunch with them, and hear what they're thinking.  These people will substantially influence the future, because they are inventing it.  I'm optimistic because these folks understand critical thinking and have both feet firmly planted on the ground. The good news is our future will be defined by these folks and NOT by our politicians.  We'll leave the job of picking the gender signs for bathroom doors to them.   

[2 Aces]

Sorry, but if anyone supports Hillary or Bernie, then they are clearly a card carrying left wing whacko socialist liberal. If you don'tunderstand that, then you are simply a hard core leftist demagogue.

You leftists don't even realize when you are lying, like BorderClintonFan and CrummyOldMan. Liberals in LaLa Land denial.

Very bizarre. Cult ??

[The Average Joe]

I think that (generally) GoG and BCF have valid perspectives. I (generally) disagree with their worldview, but I don't think they are bad people or whackos.  That is one of the problems with the demagoguery both sides use. It entirely disregards any argument from the "other side" and appeals to emotions and tribalism.  We are far more alike than different, with many of the same goals and wants. What is often different is our idea on how to get to those goals.

Saying "no offense" means nothing if your comments are meant to offend.  While I agree with Aces that leftists or progressives usually have a weaker argument for their position, I don't agree with his near ranting about them and lumping them into one block (something conservatives often accuse the left of doing). You need to step back and think how your posts would look if a leftist were going off the same way about conservatives.  Attack the IDEA, not the PERSON.

 

I guess subtlety and nuance is a lost art in critical thinking. For example, the news was so  quick to label Snowden as "hero" or "traitor."  In actuality, he was both. Unfortunately, many can't comprehend such a thing and are stuck in a good or bad mentality.   The same goes for ANY political topic.  Trump isn't an evil racist, and Hillary isn't the devil incarnate.  They are both incredibly flawed people with incredibly flawed worldviews. Will either of them make America better? Nope. And although the damage they could do is substantial, America will go on. It just won't be the same. All democracies die eventually once people figure out they can vote themselves goodies. 

Greece is still around thousands of years after their heyday. Same with other past their prime countries...France, Britain, Germany, Russia, Japan, Spain, etc.  America will just be added to that list.  I do feel sorry for the world. A weaker America is a bad thing for everyone...well, except for despots and those with visions of expansionist domination.

[2 Aces]

I have no patience for people who try to continually sweep things under the rug to cover up for this horrible Obama administration ...it's childish...if they refuse to hammer Obama/Hillary the same way they hammered Bush, then I will hammer them and their hypocrisy with no apologies.

Part of being an adult is acknowledging the truth.

Those people need to grow up and deal with it as adults...if possible.

I don't mean to offend anyone's delicate sensibilities........

Funny that Joe thinks I should *step back*...hey Joe, the Repubs have stepped back for 7 years...how has that worked out, JOE !!!....Don't be a dummy...FIGHT, dammit. People like you are killing us and killing this country with your "be nice" approach.

Joe, last time I checked the Leftist Dem Progressive fanatics don't play nice.

Get it, Joe ??

[The Average Joe]

Lol that's the first time I have been accused of being nice here.  Although I always try to be civil, make no mistake of my resolve.  You will never persuade people of the superior argument by putting them on the defensive or calling them names.  I prefer to persuade.  But I am no pacifist. Breaking out the intellectual lumber and beating someone with it is a last resort. Sort of the same philosophy of knowing self-defense and owning guns. You use the knowledge and power as a last resort only after other options have failed.

 

I love bringing the professional smackdown to my oldest friends, and they reciprocate in kind.  The forums are different, and I keep the smack to an idle rather than a roar.  You choose a different approach. I wonder which is more effective.

 

I am killing us? Hardly.

[Chris]

Can't dig a post hole, can't change their own oil... but can invent a smartphone that to people of my generation is pure magic, and that everyone in the world wants.

Sure, it's great to be handy, but the "economic engine" is the people who can invent devices and applications the rest of us can't even dream of. They in turn keep the economy humming by paying other people to mow their lawns, make their food, watch their children, etc. There's a ripple effect.

Don't be bitter about it... just keep a sense of wonder and delight at all the new things invented by folks younger than ourselves.

BCfan....   Ask yourself, how many people in this world have a smart phone...?   Everybody you know, but not most of the humans on this planet.  They can not relate to a phone when they can't find food, cooking fuel, heating fuel, clean water to drink.   Get out of your bubble.  Real life is not about phones, computers, electricity at all, Hipsters dreaming up the app for your entertainment.........!  Food, shelter, not being killed by the next tribe over the hill, those radical muslims who think you need to die, clean water so that 2 of your 12 babies actually make it to five years old.   I'm sorry, I don't think you liberals and your "Hipsters" have a clue about real human life on this planet.  Been too easy for you and your Hipsters.........     Not that many people live like us.......    And I am a conservative and have to explain this to you...!    So sad.   Chris 

[2 Aces]

Joe, you think your approach is more effective...you think being civil, nice, respectful?????...Hey Joe, Google 2008 and 2012 Presidential Election...there was nothing nice about those by the Dem thugs and rabble rousers...we were all "racists" !!!...America was RACIST !!!...Wake up Joe...

Joe, I admire your desire to be nice if you're satisfied with 2nd Place, but if you're gonna bring a knife to a gun fight with progressive thugs, you're gonna lose, man.

Please tell me you understand this basic fact of life in the modern USA...

[bordercolliefan]

To those in here who consider themselves part of the conservative sphere, or right-leaning, or tea party, or whatever...please understand that if others criticize some feature of your world, it doesn't automatically make them card-carrying, left wing whacko, socialist liberals.  It is indeed possible to have a mixture of both liberal and conservative beliefs.  I'm a good example:
 
-  I'm a huge advocate for personal responsibility (conservative)
-  I believe there are members of our society who truly need assistance from the gov't.  Either they've been dealt a bad hand from Mother Nature, or a victim of very bad luck (liberal)
-  However, I also believe that many gov't assistance programs go WAY too far and encourage able-bodied people to become dependent upon them (conservative) 
-  I'm a strong believer of protecting the environment (liberal)
-  I'm very appreciative of our capitalistic system.  It has served me extremely well (conservative)
-  There are some things that SHOULD NOT be operated with a capitalistic objective.  Healthcare and education are among them (liberal)
 
Sadly, our politics have become so polarized that people with beliefs that extend into both liberal and conservative worlds are demonized as "fence-sitters", ambivalent, or lacking conviction.  The idea that compromise often is the best solution, particularly in the halls of gov't, has disappeared from the political world.  Protecting the extremist ideology becomes the top priority, even if it brings on the demise of the nation.  That we have candidates for prez that represent only the extremist views of both sides shows the folly of this fringe based politics. 
 
Finally,  I agree with Bordercolliefan regarding the younger generation.  I'm fortunate enough to be in an industry where I get to actually enter the halls and conference rooms of companies like Apple, Google, Microsoft, Intel, Tesla, SpaceX, Medtronic.  I get to work with these people, have lunch with them, and hear what they're thinking.  These people will substantially influence the future, because they are inventing it.  I'm optimistic because these folks understand critical thinking and have both feet firmly planted on the ground. The good news is our future will be defined by these folks and NOT by our politicians.  We'll leave the job of picking the gender signs for bathroom doors to them.

Nice post, GoG. I pretty much agree with everything you say. It's funny how 2 Aces and Chris want to accuse us of being blind followers, but we are clearly the most independent thinkers on this board--able to make our own judgments and borrow from both the liberal and conservative philosophies. I would give Average Joe the mantle of independent thinker, too.

There is a lot of rage on this board--rage against liberals, against women, against the young... and doomsday predictions that America is going to hell in a handbasket. That may be the hardest gap to bridge. I just don't feel that rage. In general, I am satisfied with my country and my job, and with two terrific high school students who have many smart hard-working and thoughtful friends, I have an abiding optimism about America's future.