158 replies to this topic

[Chad Vander Veen]

 

If your lack of experience is questioned, you can point out that (1) every other council member was new at some point, and didn't have experience; (2) with no fresh blood, we end up with an entrenched council that will be there for literally decades.

 

I for one am not asking you to "manufacture criticism" of council members.  But I hope your politeness will not extend to refraining from criticizing certain actions, like trying to claim N50 water as the new S50 water source, despite Measure W etc.

 

If you end up seeming to share the views of current council members, because you do not contradict their projects and how they go about them, then I don't see why people would vote for you, as opposed to the "name recognition" candidates with the big signs on developer land.

 

Absolutely agree - the water source debacle, which I believe puts the city at significant risk, is central to why I'm running. 

[Redone]

Do you realize that Ernie supports the plan to conserve and use the conservation for South area ?

 

No one will call an elected official who is honest, who votes logically and explains their vote corrupt! Has anyone called Ernie Corrupt...yea that's what I thought!

 

No one has done more in this Community that Ernie Sheldon and no one has garnered more good will than Ernie. After him trying the go along to get along approach some of you are advocating, it hasn't gotten him or those in the community who share his beliefs, anything, from the other 4 council members. He is finally fed up that he wont support any of the incumbents.

 

[Chad Vander Veen]

Good news! I am officially a candidate as of today. Looking forward to the run for office and hopefully serving this great city and its residents.

[supermom]

Well, Chad. I support you in this endeavor. You are a good man with a solid box of thinking blocks on your shoulders. Good luck, run the race as well as you can- and i hope to see you in the council soon.

[TruthSeeker]

Bravo Chad, best of luck.
You've already got my vote.

[nowtherestofthestory]

Redone,

 

That's NOT what Ernie supports. When are you going to get something right?

 

Before the vote was taken on doing the water conservation, there was tremendous lobbying going on to get Ernie to vote yes so it would show Solidarity amongst our Council members. Go back and listen to what Ernie said the night of the vote and go back and listen to the couple of time since then he has expressed concerns about this.

 

From what Ive been told the Council was under pressure from a landowner to get this done so they could sell their parcel, before the citizens wised up to what was going on. Supposedly, Ernie was assured, that they the council would come back and modify this agreement if need be.

 

Also, Ernie knows that to be able to ask for reconsideration on an issue that was already passed by the council, it has to be approved by 3 Council members who originally voted YES on that issue.  He knew and knows that 2 Colleagues will never want this to come back, so he had to vote yes, to be the 3rd vote and try and lobby the other 2 to get it reversed.

 

He has tried to work with his colleagues but they wont have anything to do about it, so he has no other choice but to try and find other candidates, to get them elected to the council to work around getting this issues addressed.

 

Im surprised that you weren't able to figure this out.

 

Steve....Im not aware of any challenger in an election, ever beating an incumbent, by not pointing out the failures of the Incumbent. The undeniable fact is 4 of our existing city council members have lied to us by telling us no water north of 50 can be used for south of 50.I think any candidate running would be a fool if they didn't point that out. Some of these city council members actually posted this on this very forum years ago, but now these posts and others are now deleted. Maybe, since you are the administrator and owner you could shed some light on why this happened? 

 

Chad, I want to apologize for my role in Hijacking your thread. I wish you all the best and encourage to contact Ernie to get his endorsement and support! Everybody in town knows we are in a drought and very few people understand how we can be forced to conserve water since we dont have enough, yet turn around and build over 10,000 new homes with water we dont have. This issue is the winning ticket and any challenger who doesn't use it to the fullest simply wont get elected.

 

Its your campaign and you have to do what you believe is right and I wish you all the best.

[Steve Heard]

Steve....Im not aware of any challenger in an election, ever beating an incumbent, by not pointing out the failures of the Incumbent. The undeniable fact is 4 of our existing city council members have lied to us by telling us no water north of 50 can be used for south of 50.I think any candidate running would be a fool if they didn't point that out. Some of these city council members actually posted this on this very forum years ago, but now these posts and others are now deleted. Maybe, since you are the administrator and owner you could shed some light on why this happened? 

 

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with pointing out the changes to the original plans, but calling them liars is another thing entirely.

 

You assume they lied, which would require you to have knowledge of their thoughts. I assume they changed their minds. 

 

Either way, the result is the same, so go after the result rather than any accusations of dishonesty.

 

It's okay to question, I'm suggesting that it's not okay to make accusations. Might come back to bite you when you need their support on issues or endorsements. 

 

As for the content you speak of, I'm not sure what it is. I don't know if the software deletes or archives old threads or not. I just tried to look up content that my daughter put up back in 2003, when she was 14 years old. I found her user name but no content.

 

I don't know the technical details about how forums work, but have no reason to delete content. Perhaps the users did or had other moderators delete. 

 

Again, I'm not sure what content you're talking about.

 

 

[Rich_T]

<< I assume they changed their minds >>

 

They don't get to do that, when both the environmental report and Measure W specified the parameters of development.  It's not their prerogative to ignore what's written there.

[ducky]

<< I assume they changed their minds >>

 

They don't get to do that, when both the environmental report and Measure W specified the parameters of development.  It's not their prerogative to ignore what's written there.

 

That's my problem with it.  This isn't some vague promise made at a council meeting.  It was voted on.  Would residents have voted for Measure W if they knew the requirement to procure a new water source separate from the N50 water supply wasn't going to be honored?

[Chad Vander Veen]

 

 

Chad, I want to apologize for my role in Hijacking your thread. I wish you all the best and encourage to contact Ernie to get his endorsement and support! Everybody in town knows we are in a drought and very few people understand how we can be forced to conserve water since we dont have enough, yet turn around and build over 10,000 new homes with water we dont have. This issue is the winning ticket and any challenger who doesn't use it to the fullest simply wont get elected.

 

 

 

I just want to make sure you read my statement as to why I'm running - the issue you raise is a central part of my message. 

[Steve Heard]

<< I assume they changed their minds >>

 

They don't get to do that, when both the environmental report and Measure W specified the parameters of development.  It's not their prerogative to ignore what's written there.

 

 

 

That's my problem with it.  This isn't some vague promise made at a council meeting.  It was voted on.  Would residents have voted for Measure W if they knew the requirement to procure a new water source separate from the N50 water supply wasn't going to be honored?

 

And that's how you challenge it!

 

That's what you say, not accuse them of being corrupt or liars or both.

[Rich_T]

 

 

 

And that's how you challenge it!

 

That's what you say, not accuse them of being corrupt or liars or both.

 

True. But realize that they still might very well be corrupt and lying, even if you don't say it out loud.   In fact, it's perhaps the most common explanation when politicians create rules that they later break, once those rules become inconvenient to a predetermined agenda.  Just sayin'.  It's worse to actually BE corrupt and lying than merely to call it out.

[Steve Heard]

 

True. But realize that they still might very well be corrupt and lying, even if you don't say it out loud.   In fact, it's perhaps the most common explanation when politicians create rules that they later break, once those rules become inconvenient to a predetermined agenda.  Just sayin'.  It's worse to actually BE corrupt and lying than merely to call it out.

 

Understood, but as a candidate trying to win votes, and possibly the support of other council members, and one who will have to work with these council members in the future, I think it best to say 'You were wrong', or 'You can't change this', rather than, 'You are corrupt' or 'you are liar'.

[Rich_T]

 

Understood, but as a candidate trying to win votes, and possibly the support of other council members, and one who will have to work with these council members in the future, I think it best to say 'You were wrong', or 'You can't change this', rather than, 'You are corrupt' or 'you are liar'.

 

Agreed!  

 

Generally speaking, politics is diplomacy, compromise, and the "art of the possible".  Even when connivers are pitted against ethical people, which probably happens often, the language used is all very nice-nice (except for all the nasty TV and radio ads, of course, but those are too expensive for our Folsom elections).  I could never be in politics.

 

I'll repeat my assessment of the Folsom S50 topic, which Chad will have to face:  some council members really, really want to develop S50, and are bent on finding a way, any way, to get it done, no matter what is written in Measure W etc.  That's what challengers are up against on that topic.

[Chad Vander Veen]

Did you know that the Folsom Chamber's political action committee has already amassed $50,000 to keep incumbents in office? That's a lotta dough to keep the status quo.