When you walk into a restaurant you will see a sign above the door that says this building can accommodate a certain amount of people. Why can't countries be like that?
I mean, the larger a population, the more resources it needs and there is more of a stress on the planet to provide that. Just how many people can this planet accommodate without polluting it to death?
We don't limit how many cars there are on the roads or how many kids one may have. In fact, many think it's cool that some people have eight or ten kids! There are even TV shows about that sort of thing.
My feeling is this global warming thing is just a front to get money out of us tax payers to somehow fund corporations who want to set up a business in under developed countries. Maybe it's sort of like a payment we are going to pay that country for the pollution the business will cause, so they can try and control the pollution, instead of making the business control it.
Something is wrong with this picture and I feel it's really a swindle of some kind. I mean, if there were REALLY a concern over global warming, wouldn't we be addressing the issue of over population????
Yet I haven't heard a word. Has anybody else???
Copenhagan
Started by
Bill Z
, Jan 13 2010 06:11 PM
45 replies to this topic
#17
ducky
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Posted 22 January 2010 - 04:24 PM
QUOTE (MaxineR @ Jan 22 2010, 04:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When you walk into a restaurant you will see a sign above the door that says this building can accommodate a certain amount of people. Why can't countries be like that?
I mean, the larger a population, the more resources it needs and there is more of a stress on the planet to provide that. Just how many people can this planet accommodate without polluting it to death?
We don't limit how many cars there are on the roads or how many kids one may have. In fact, many think it's cool that some people have eight or ten kids! There are even TV shows about that sort of thing.
My feeling is this global warming thing is just a front to get money out of us tax payers to somehow fund corporations who want to set up a business in under developed countries. Maybe it's sort of like a payment we are going to pay that country for the pollution the business will cause, so they can try and control the pollution, instead of making the business control it.
Something is wrong with this picture and I feel it's really a swindle of some kind. I mean, if there were REALLY a concern over global warming, wouldn't we be addressing the issue of over population????
Yet I haven't heard a word. Has anybody else???
I mean, the larger a population, the more resources it needs and there is more of a stress on the planet to provide that. Just how many people can this planet accommodate without polluting it to death?
We don't limit how many cars there are on the roads or how many kids one may have. In fact, many think it's cool that some people have eight or ten kids! There are even TV shows about that sort of thing.
My feeling is this global warming thing is just a front to get money out of us tax payers to somehow fund corporations who want to set up a business in under developed countries. Maybe it's sort of like a payment we are going to pay that country for the pollution the business will cause, so they can try and control the pollution, instead of making the business control it.
Something is wrong with this picture and I feel it's really a swindle of some kind. I mean, if there were REALLY a concern over global warming, wouldn't we be addressing the issue of over population????
Yet I haven't heard a word. Has anybody else???
Do you really want the government telling people who can and cannot have a child??? Forced {insert word we can't talk about here]s?? Forced sterilizations??? No thanks.
#18
(MaxineR)
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Posted 22 January 2010 - 05:38 PM
QUOTE (ducky @ Jan 22 2010, 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do you really want the government telling people who can and cannot have a child??? Forced {insert word we can't talk about here]s?? Forced sterilizations??? No thanks.
I think there shouldn't be a tax deduction for the number of children you have. I think we should follow China's example of taxing each child a couple has over two. Meaning that we can reproduce to replace ourselves, but no more than two kids per couple. That would stabilize the population here, at least.
The word mentioned that can't be mentioned will be up to the individual. I support people making their own choices but feel they should start being responsible. I'm tired of seeing more and more children having to go into Foster homes and be supported by the government when the parents have made poor choices with their body and it's reproductive process.
Also, we need to stop glorifying having children as if it were the greatest thing since the air plane and start telling it like it is. But the fact is, the baby industry makes it sound so wonderful and perfect, because they want to continue making the huge profits they do on diapers, baby food, baby furniture and toys, toys and more toys.
Don't get me wrong...having a family is great, especially if it works out that Mom and Dad are responsible and the kids don't end up suffering from bad parents. But you know as well as I do that too many babies are born out of wed lock and little chance at having a good childhood. It's crazy and maybe it should be a crime. After all, we are talking about little human beings here, that are at the mercy of those who brought them into the world. Those children end up paying the most for out of control people who can't even be responsible enough to take birth control measures. Good Grief!
There are a number of ways to help with over population.....like having free sterilization clinics for women who can't afford to pay for it themselves....or those woman who are drug addicts, prostitutes or just don't want to have kids....ever. But today, people even encourage women to have kids if they aren't married!!!! They act like it's a waste of a woman's uterus if she never has a child. I've even heard parents of adult children say they have tried to talk their daughters into giving them a grand child...like they want something to brag about and play with. It's like they don't see them as human beings, but an amusing past time.
Do you think people will start reducing the number of children they have and start looking at the stress over population has on the planet, on their own? Do you think we are going to stop producing individuals who are raised so poorly they become criminals or worse, killers?
What is your solution to the increasing birth rate here, and in poor countries?
#19
The Average Joe
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Posted 22 January 2010 - 07:44 PM
Most of the western world is already failing to replace their population. The net population growth comes from immigration and 3rd world countries that have surplus growth.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis
If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous
"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one" — Thomas Paine, 𝘊𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘚𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 (1776)
#20
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Posted 22 January 2010 - 08:02 PM
QUOTE (ducky @ Jan 21 2010, 08:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wouldn't doing that be just pollution and not climate change? I mean, motor oil is not meant to be put into a lake. It's meant to be put into a vehicle and disposed of properly.
Can a person be against pollution and not buy into the climate change theory, or am I just fooling myself?
Can a person be against pollution and not buy into the climate change theory, or am I just fooling myself?
The point I was making is that Man has an impact on his environment, which climate change deniers seem not to believe. When you dump motor oil into a lake, or pump excessive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere, there will be negative consequences.
Humans, biologically, are allowed to emit a certain amount of CO2 during our respiratory process. Driving a car, a boat, a train, a plane and whatever other modes of transportation people use are not part of that natural cycle. It's EXCESSIVE.
Climate change, like evolution, has crossed the threshold to fact.
QUOTE (EDF @ Jan 21 2010, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
we don't believe in man made global warming.. that's a hoax... but you're talking "pollution"... that's a big diff...
So running a gasoline engine outdoors isn't polluting?
“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.” - Sinclair Lewis
#21
EDF
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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:15 PM
QUOTE (uberman @ Jan 22 2010, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The point I was making is that Man has an impact on his environment, which climate change deniers seem not to believe. When you dump motor oil into a lake, or pump excessive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere, there will be negative consequences.
Humans, biologically, are allowed to emit a certain amount of CO2 during our respiratory process. Driving a car, a boat, a train, a plane and whatever other modes of transportation people use are not part of that natural cycle. It's EXCESSIVE.
Climate change, like evolution, has crossed the threshold to fact.
So running a gasoline engine outdoors isn't polluting?
Humans, biologically, are allowed to emit a certain amount of CO2 during our respiratory process. Driving a car, a boat, a train, a plane and whatever other modes of transportation people use are not part of that natural cycle. It's EXCESSIVE.
Climate change, like evolution, has crossed the threshold to fact.
So running a gasoline engine outdoors isn't polluting?
Uber babe...
Hey man can not change the enviroment.. he can pollute it.. but we disagree on a couple of things and the 1st one is CO2... bring it on.. get more trees out there...
God didn't say we couldn't have fun in our lives... If I run my boat out there on the lake repsonsibly and don't "pee" in the lake too much... all is well right...? and you aren't going to see boaters pollute the lake...
Most people do help take care of the enviroment... if you want to do more.. go ahead.. just don't ask me to pay for it and when I squak and tell you it's unreasonable... "cap-n-tax"... don't call me a denyer... I'm not a "believer" like you because it's been proven over and over again (man made global warming) to be a hoax...
Now you got the memo....
#22
ducky
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Posted 23 January 2010 - 09:50 AM
QUOTE (MaxineR @ Jan 22 2010, 05:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think there shouldn't be a tax deduction for the number of children you have. I think we should follow China's example of taxing each child a couple has over two. Meaning that we can reproduce to replace ourselves, but no more than two kids per couple. That would stabilize the population here, at least.
The word mentioned that can't be mentioned will be up to the individual. I support people making their own choices but feel they should start being responsible. I'm tired of seeing more and more children having to go into Foster homes and be supported by the government when the parents have made poor choices with their body and it's reproductive process.
Also, we need to stop glorifying having children as if it were the greatest thing since the air plane and start telling it like it is. But the fact is, the baby industry makes it sound so wonderful and perfect, because they want to continue making the huge profits they do on diapers, baby food, baby furniture and toys, toys and more toys.
Don't get me wrong...having a family is great, especially if it works out that Mom and Dad are responsible and the kids don't end up suffering from bad parents. But you know as well as I do that too many babies are born out of wed lock and little chance at having a good childhood. It's crazy and maybe it should be a crime. After all, we are talking about little human beings here, that are at the mercy of those who brought them into the world. Those children end up paying the most for out of control people who can't even be responsible enough to take birth control measures. Good Grief!
There are a number of ways to help with over population.....like having free sterilization clinics for women who can't afford to pay for it themselves....or those woman who are drug addicts, prostitutes or just don't want to have kids....ever. But today, people even encourage women to have kids if they aren't married!!!! They act like it's a waste of a woman's uterus if she never has a child. I've even heard parents of adult children say they have tried to talk their daughters into giving them a grand child...like they want something to brag about and play with. It's like they don't see them as human beings, but an amusing past time.
Do you think people will start reducing the number of children they have and start looking at the stress over population has on the planet, on their own? Do you think we are going to stop producing individuals who are raised so poorly they become criminals or worse, killers?
What is your solution to the increasing birth rate here, and in poor countries?
The word mentioned that can't be mentioned will be up to the individual. I support people making their own choices but feel they should start being responsible. I'm tired of seeing more and more children having to go into Foster homes and be supported by the government when the parents have made poor choices with their body and it's reproductive process.
Also, we need to stop glorifying having children as if it were the greatest thing since the air plane and start telling it like it is. But the fact is, the baby industry makes it sound so wonderful and perfect, because they want to continue making the huge profits they do on diapers, baby food, baby furniture and toys, toys and more toys.
Don't get me wrong...having a family is great, especially if it works out that Mom and Dad are responsible and the kids don't end up suffering from bad parents. But you know as well as I do that too many babies are born out of wed lock and little chance at having a good childhood. It's crazy and maybe it should be a crime. After all, we are talking about little human beings here, that are at the mercy of those who brought them into the world. Those children end up paying the most for out of control people who can't even be responsible enough to take birth control measures. Good Grief!
There are a number of ways to help with over population.....like having free sterilization clinics for women who can't afford to pay for it themselves....or those woman who are drug addicts, prostitutes or just don't want to have kids....ever. But today, people even encourage women to have kids if they aren't married!!!! They act like it's a waste of a woman's uterus if she never has a child. I've even heard parents of adult children say they have tried to talk their daughters into giving them a grand child...like they want something to brag about and play with. It's like they don't see them as human beings, but an amusing past time.
Do you think people will start reducing the number of children they have and start looking at the stress over population has on the planet, on their own? Do you think we are going to stop producing individuals who are raised so poorly they become criminals or worse, killers?
What is your solution to the increasing birth rate here, and in poor countries?
I don't have a solution. I'd like to see more responsibility, too, so I guess the best solution would be education.
I have to disagree about having children not being a great thing. My kids are and always will be the best thing that ever happened to me.
I believe China does much more than tax women who get pregnant without permission, and it is barbaric. This type of social engineering leads to the 24 million Chinese men who are looking for brides. I guess that's the part of the whole population control that gives me the heebie-jeebies. It's a slippery slope to Social Darwinism and eugenics. Can you remember anyone else in history that tried to control and cleanse the population to keep the unfit out?
#23
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Posted 24 January 2010 - 02:49 PM
QUOTE (ducky @ Jan 23 2010, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't have a solution. I'd like to see more responsibility, too, so I guess the best solution would be education.
I have to disagree about having children not being a great thing. My kids are and always will be the best thing that ever happened to me.
I believe China does much more than tax women who get pregnant without permission, and it is barbaric. This type of social engineering leads to the 24 million Chinese men who are looking for brides. I guess that's the part of the whole population control that gives me the heebie-jeebies. It's a slippery slope to Social Darwinism and eugenics. Can you remember anyone else in history that tried to control and cleanse the population to keep the unfit out?
I have to disagree about having children not being a great thing. My kids are and always will be the best thing that ever happened to me.
I believe China does much more than tax women who get pregnant without permission, and it is barbaric. This type of social engineering leads to the 24 million Chinese men who are looking for brides. I guess that's the part of the whole population control that gives me the heebie-jeebies. It's a slippery slope to Social Darwinism and eugenics. Can you remember anyone else in history that tried to control and cleanse the population to keep the unfit out?
You read my post wrong....
I said that having a family (children) was great if the kids didn't have to suffer with having bad parents, and I'll add, IF both of them are there and involved with the child's life. I feel as you do in that I was blessed to have the children and did and think my life would be very empty without them. But today, we have children (14-16 years old) who think having a baby would be great. You have to admit that raising children is not all fun and games. It takes a certain amount of maturity to do it right.
The citizens of China are the ones who have made the laws regarding how many children they can have ugly. It's not the governments fault some kill their female babies or place them up for adoption. It's those people who value male babies over female, due to old fashioned ideas which are to blame, wouldn't you agree?
I'm NOT saying that those who are unfit should be culled out of our society. I AM saying that due to unwanted children being born, some parents are ill prepared to deal with raising a child and the child suffers the most in the whole deal. They often grow up angry and have some mental baggage that hurts everyone in their lives and often gets them in trouble with the law. Studies have proven that most criminals come from bad parents.
Please don't make my statements out to be something compared to Hitler, because that is NOT what I'm saying at all. I feel that human life is too important to be treated so casually by some people and they should be made to respect the life they bring into the world.
What is wrong with that?
I give you these two examples of children who have suffered at the hands of teribble parents. People who should never had had children...or been around them....
http://www.msnbc.msn..._and_parenting/
http://www.msnbc.msn...ime_and_courts/
#24
EDF
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Posted 24 January 2010 - 03:19 PM
QUOTE (ducky @ Jan 23 2010, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't have a solution. I'd like to see more responsibility, too, so I guess the best solution would be education.
I have to disagree about having children not being a great thing. My kids are and always will be the best thing that ever happened to me.
I believe China does much more than tax women who get pregnant without permission, and it is barbaric. This type of social engineering leads to the 24 million Chinese men who are looking for brides. I guess that's the part of the whole population control that gives me the heebie-jeebies. It's a slippery slope to Social Darwinism and eugenics. Can you remember anyone else in history that tried to control and cleanse the population to keep the unfit out?
I have to disagree about having children not being a great thing. My kids are and always will be the best thing that ever happened to me.
I believe China does much more than tax women who get pregnant without permission, and it is barbaric. This type of social engineering leads to the 24 million Chinese men who are looking for brides. I guess that's the part of the whole population control that gives me the heebie-jeebies. It's a slippery slope to Social Darwinism and eugenics. Can you remember anyone else in history that tried to control and cleanse the population to keep the unfit out?
Good points... Hitler comes to mind...by the way... in case some folks missed the memo..? Hitler was a left wing socialist... He, Stalin & Mao are like you know "sympatico"...
#25
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Posted 24 January 2010 - 03:41 PM
QUOTE (EDF @ Jan 24 2010, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good points... Hitler comes to mind...by the way... in case some folks missed the memo..? Hitler was a left wing socialist... He, Stalin & Mao are like you know "sympatico"...
So...it's OK to give a tax break for each child a person has, or get on Welfare for support, but it's not nice to tax a person for each child they have over one?
Do you agree it is a form of socialism to give tax breaks to those who have children?
#26
ducky
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Posted 24 January 2010 - 03:55 PM
QUOTE (MaxineR @ Jan 24 2010, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You read my post wrong....
I said that having a family (children) was great if the kids didn't have to suffer with having bad parents, and I'll add, IF both of them are there and involved with the child's life. I feel as you do in that I was blessed to have the children and did and think my life would be very empty without them. But today, we have children (14-16 years old) who think having a baby would be great. You have to admit that raising children is not all fun and games. It takes a certain amount of maturity to do it right.
The citizens of China are the ones who have made the laws regarding how many children they can have ugly. It's not the governments fault some kill their female babies or place them up for adoption. It's those people who value male babies over female, due to old fashioned ideas which are to blame, wouldn't you agree?
I'm NOT saying that those who are unfit should be culled out of our society. I AM saying that due to unwanted children being born, some parents are ill prepared to deal with raising a child and the child suffers the most in the whole deal. They often grow up angry and have some mental baggage that hurts everyone in their lives and often gets them in trouble with the law. Studies have proven that most criminals come from bad parents.
Please don't make my statements out to be something compared to Hitler, because that is NOT what I'm saying at all. I feel that human life is too important to be treated so casually by some people and they should be made to respect the life they bring into the world.
What is wrong with that?
I give you these two examples of children who have suffered at the hands of teribble parents. People who should never had had children...or been around them....
http://www.msnbc.msn..._and_parenting/
http://www.msnbc.msn...ime_and_courts/
I said that having a family (children) was great if the kids didn't have to suffer with having bad parents, and I'll add, IF both of them are there and involved with the child's life. I feel as you do in that I was blessed to have the children and did and think my life would be very empty without them. But today, we have children (14-16 years old) who think having a baby would be great. You have to admit that raising children is not all fun and games. It takes a certain amount of maturity to do it right.
The citizens of China are the ones who have made the laws regarding how many children they can have ugly. It's not the governments fault some kill their female babies or place them up for adoption. It's those people who value male babies over female, due to old fashioned ideas which are to blame, wouldn't you agree?
I'm NOT saying that those who are unfit should be culled out of our society. I AM saying that due to unwanted children being born, some parents are ill prepared to deal with raising a child and the child suffers the most in the whole deal. They often grow up angry and have some mental baggage that hurts everyone in their lives and often gets them in trouble with the law. Studies have proven that most criminals come from bad parents.
Please don't make my statements out to be something compared to Hitler, because that is NOT what I'm saying at all. I feel that human life is too important to be treated so casually by some people and they should be made to respect the life they bring into the world.
What is wrong with that?
I give you these two examples of children who have suffered at the hands of teribble parents. People who should never had had children...or been around them....
http://www.msnbc.msn..._and_parenting/
http://www.msnbc.msn...ime_and_courts/
I wasn't saying I fear you personally want to cull people you might find unfavorable from our society; although, by your standards, you wouldn't have allowed me my three children. I had my first child barely out of high school. He's got his Master's and is currently working on his Ph.D. My second has her B.S. and is working on a doctorate. My third, which according to you I shouldn't have been allowed to have or be taxed for, well, who knows what he'll end up doing.
Does it make me upset when I hear of people having five or more children they can't provide for on the government dime? Sure it does. Take away their incentive (free money).
I'm saying I wouldn't want to see our government or any government limiting family size or controlling who can and cannot have children. I see too much room for abuse there. How do you decide who is fit? Sometimes genius skips a generation. Sometimes truly amazing people overcome rough upbringings to live productive lives.
Trying to bring this back to topic, what if the person who could have come up with a form of transportation that wouldn't pollute and nullifies the climate change dispute is never born because they had the misfortune of being Child No. 3 and only two are allowed per family? It's just another freedom I don't want messed with by government, especially by people who think they are so superior they have the right to look down on others who aren't like them. Sorry, but we're gonna have to disagree on this one.
#27
(MaxineR)
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Posted 24 January 2010 - 04:42 PM
Ducky.....
No, I think we agree, but our communication is lacking. Let me try again to explain my views.....
1) I don't think there should be any tax breaks for people who have children.
2) I don't think there should be any free lunch for those who don't for fill their parental responsibilities. I think they should be made to pay back the welfare they get and the foster care their kids may get by working it out or by payments to the state/federal government.
WE the tax payers should not have to pay for their irresponsible parenting.
3) I don't feel we should allow a teenage mother to get free transportation and free child care while they go finish their high school education. It gives the impression that it's OK to have a kid as a teen ager, because you can finish your education, so no sweat.
4) I believe in education, but don't believe in irresponsible behavior that is to me immoral as well as selfish.
Yes, I waited for marriage to have sex because I knew how easy it would be to fall into the practice of having sex with every boy I thought I was in love with. It was very hard because I had the same sexual urges that all teen agers have. But I saw how other girls were trying to raise their babies on their own after the father, also a teenager, left them and never looked back. I saw how these girls get stuck with being a single parent and how it changed their lives forever....not being able to go to college or pursue their personal goals. And I wanted better than that for my kids.
I don't know your age but when I was a teen girls who had sex before they were married were looked down on because of the fact that they allowed boys to take advantage of them. I don't mean to judge here and know that teens can make mistakes. I just had a rule that no boy went to third base with me, no matter what. I listened to my parents about waiting until marriage. You see, my sister was born to a mother who had to get married and it didn't work out well. The child didn't have a father around and has suffered a great deal because of it. She is now trying to find her father....it's sad. We are so afraid she will be disappointed if he rejects her.
I am in no way talking about a government forcing birth control on women, but that they assist in it when women can't afford birth control. And that we as a society don't think women are selfish for NOT wanting to have children. My daughter has gotten all kinds of judgments because she doesn't want to have kids and wants to pursue a career which will be very challenging. She says some of her friends look at her odd and they all have kids of their own. I hate the idea that some feel a woman isn't for filled until she has children.
She says she has seen in the past how they compete with each other on who can get pregnant the fastest. It's nuts!
Finally, people should be free to make their own choices about how many kids they have, but I don't want to pay for it with social services which are paid for with my tax dollars..... which are becoming increasingly higher each year. Having children shouldn't be a way to earn a living by getting the state to pay you for their raising.
No, I think we agree, but our communication is lacking. Let me try again to explain my views.....
1) I don't think there should be any tax breaks for people who have children.
2) I don't think there should be any free lunch for those who don't for fill their parental responsibilities. I think they should be made to pay back the welfare they get and the foster care their kids may get by working it out or by payments to the state/federal government.
WE the tax payers should not have to pay for their irresponsible parenting.
3) I don't feel we should allow a teenage mother to get free transportation and free child care while they go finish their high school education. It gives the impression that it's OK to have a kid as a teen ager, because you can finish your education, so no sweat.
4) I believe in education, but don't believe in irresponsible behavior that is to me immoral as well as selfish.
Yes, I waited for marriage to have sex because I knew how easy it would be to fall into the practice of having sex with every boy I thought I was in love with. It was very hard because I had the same sexual urges that all teen agers have. But I saw how other girls were trying to raise their babies on their own after the father, also a teenager, left them and never looked back. I saw how these girls get stuck with being a single parent and how it changed their lives forever....not being able to go to college or pursue their personal goals. And I wanted better than that for my kids.
I don't know your age but when I was a teen girls who had sex before they were married were looked down on because of the fact that they allowed boys to take advantage of them. I don't mean to judge here and know that teens can make mistakes. I just had a rule that no boy went to third base with me, no matter what. I listened to my parents about waiting until marriage. You see, my sister was born to a mother who had to get married and it didn't work out well. The child didn't have a father around and has suffered a great deal because of it. She is now trying to find her father....it's sad. We are so afraid she will be disappointed if he rejects her.
I am in no way talking about a government forcing birth control on women, but that they assist in it when women can't afford birth control. And that we as a society don't think women are selfish for NOT wanting to have children. My daughter has gotten all kinds of judgments because she doesn't want to have kids and wants to pursue a career which will be very challenging. She says some of her friends look at her odd and they all have kids of their own. I hate the idea that some feel a woman isn't for filled until she has children.
She says she has seen in the past how they compete with each other on who can get pregnant the fastest. It's nuts!
Finally, people should be free to make their own choices about how many kids they have, but I don't want to pay for it with social services which are paid for with my tax dollars..... which are becoming increasingly higher each year. Having children shouldn't be a way to earn a living by getting the state to pay you for their raising.
#28
ducky
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Posted 24 January 2010 - 04:58 PM
QUOTE (MaxineR @ Jan 24 2010, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ducky.....
No, I think we agree, but our communication is lacking. Let me try again to explain my views.....
1) I don't think there should be any tax breaks for people who have children.
2) I don't think there should be any free lunch for those who don't for fill their parental responsibilities. I think they should be made to pay back the welfare they get and the foster care their kids may get by working it out or by payments to the state/federal government.
WE the tax payers should not have to pay for their irresponsible parenting.
3) I don't feel we should allow a teenage mother to get free transportation and free child care while they go finish their high school education. It gives the impression that it's OK to have a kid as a teen ager, because you can finish your education, so no sweat.
4) I believe in education, but don't believe in irresponsible behavior that is to me immoral as well as selfish.
Yes, I waited for marriage to have sex because I knew how easy it would be to fall into the practice of having sex with every boy I thought I was in love with. It was very hard because I had the same sexual urges that all teen agers have. But I saw how other girls were trying to raise their babies on their own after the father, also a teenager, left them and never looked back. I saw how these girls get stuck with being a single parent and how it changed their lives forever....not being able to go to college or pursue their personal goals. And I wanted better than that for my kids.
I don't know your age but when I was a teen girls who had sex before they were married were looked down on because of the fact that they allowed boys to take advantage of them. I don't mean to judge here and know that teens can make mistakes. I just had a rule that no boy went to third base with me, no matter what. I listened to my parents about waiting until marriage. You see, my sister was born to a mother who had to get married and it didn't work out well. The child didn't have a father around and has suffered a great deal because of it. She is now trying to find her father....it's sad. We are so afraid she will be disappointed if he rejects her.
I am in no way talking about a government forcing birth control on women, but that they assist in it when women can't afford birth control. And that we as a society don't think women are selfish for NOT wanting to have children. My daughter has gotten all kinds of judgments because she doesn't want to have kids and wants to pursue a career which will be very challenging. She says some of her friends look at her odd and they all have kids of their own. I hate the idea that some feel a woman isn't for filled until she has children.
She says she has seen in the past how they compete with each other on who can get pregnant the fastest. It's nuts!
Finally, people should be free to make their own choices about how many kids they have, but I don't want to pay for it with social services which are paid for with my tax dollars..... which are becoming increasingly higher each year. Having children shouldn't be a way to earn a living by getting the state to pay you for their raising.
No, I think we agree, but our communication is lacking. Let me try again to explain my views.....
1) I don't think there should be any tax breaks for people who have children.
2) I don't think there should be any free lunch for those who don't for fill their parental responsibilities. I think they should be made to pay back the welfare they get and the foster care their kids may get by working it out or by payments to the state/federal government.
WE the tax payers should not have to pay for their irresponsible parenting.
3) I don't feel we should allow a teenage mother to get free transportation and free child care while they go finish their high school education. It gives the impression that it's OK to have a kid as a teen ager, because you can finish your education, so no sweat.
4) I believe in education, but don't believe in irresponsible behavior that is to me immoral as well as selfish.
Yes, I waited for marriage to have sex because I knew how easy it would be to fall into the practice of having sex with every boy I thought I was in love with. It was very hard because I had the same sexual urges that all teen agers have. But I saw how other girls were trying to raise their babies on their own after the father, also a teenager, left them and never looked back. I saw how these girls get stuck with being a single parent and how it changed their lives forever....not being able to go to college or pursue their personal goals. And I wanted better than that for my kids.
I don't know your age but when I was a teen girls who had sex before they were married were looked down on because of the fact that they allowed boys to take advantage of them. I don't mean to judge here and know that teens can make mistakes. I just had a rule that no boy went to third base with me, no matter what. I listened to my parents about waiting until marriage. You see, my sister was born to a mother who had to get married and it didn't work out well. The child didn't have a father around and has suffered a great deal because of it. She is now trying to find her father....it's sad. We are so afraid she will be disappointed if he rejects her.
I am in no way talking about a government forcing birth control on women, but that they assist in it when women can't afford birth control. And that we as a society don't think women are selfish for NOT wanting to have children. My daughter has gotten all kinds of judgments because she doesn't want to have kids and wants to pursue a career which will be very challenging. She says some of her friends look at her odd and they all have kids of their own. I hate the idea that some feel a woman isn't for filled until she has children.
She says she has seen in the past how they compete with each other on who can get pregnant the fastest. It's nuts!
Finally, people should be free to make their own choices about how many kids they have, but I don't want to pay for it with social services which are paid for with my tax dollars..... which are becoming increasingly higher each year. Having children shouldn't be a way to earn a living by getting the state to pay you for their raising.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how taking away tax breaks will help with underage pregnancies. I just can't see a 15-year-old saying, "I need to have a baby to get a break on my taxes."
I don't think there is a stigma in not having children these days. I have the greatest respect for people that decide not to have children.
#29
(MaxineR)
(MaxineR)
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Posted 24 January 2010 - 05:26 PM
QUOTE (ducky @ Jan 24 2010, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm sorry, but I don't see how taking away tax breaks will help with underage pregnancies. I just can't see a 15-year-old saying, "I need to have a baby to get a break on my taxes."
I don't think there is a stigma in not having children these days. I have the greatest respect for people that decide not to have children.
I don't think there is a stigma in not having children these days. I have the greatest respect for people that decide not to have children.
Tax breaks for people who have kids is just one issue.
Why aren't you addressing the other issues in my post?
Currently, there are tens of thousands of children looking for their fathers. Their mothers don't know where they are and too often, don't even know WHO they are. Those poor kids didn't have the benefit of a father in their lives. Many had step fathers who were abusive.
Nice, huh?
#30
ducky
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Posted 24 January 2010 - 05:30 PM
QUOTE (MaxineR @ Jan 24 2010, 05:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tax breaks for people who have kids is just one issue.
Why aren't you addressing the other issues in my post?
Currently, there are tens of thousands of children looking for their fathers. Their mothers don't know where they are and too often, don't even know WHO they are. Those poor kids didn't have the benefit of a father in their lives. Many had step fathers who were abusive.
Nice, huh?
Why aren't you addressing the other issues in my post?
Currently, there are tens of thousands of children looking for their fathers. Their mothers don't know where they are and too often, don't even know WHO they are. Those poor kids didn't have the benefit of a father in their lives. Many had step fathers who were abusive.
Nice, huh?
I'm not addressing the other issues in your post because they are way off topic. I'm also guilty of that and I'm trying to do better.
You claim to have sympathy for these kids, yet you want to take away a tax break that helps people keep money they have earned to raise those children. I'm surprised. I had you pegged as a "less government" type of person.
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