42 replies to this topic

[Who_Do_You_Trust]

It's in the news.  PG&E won a 21% rate hike from the PUC last August, and it took effect on Jan 1, 2017.  

 

So why?  Natural gas is one of the most abundant and lowest cost energy sources in the world today.  All of the PG&E generating plants use natural gas.  the prices should have decreased.  

 

But the market is horribly skewed in PG&E's favor:

 

1)  For the vast majority of customers, PG&E is a monopoly.  there is no other source of gas and electricity customers can run to.  No competition.

 

2)  PG&E has a huge obligation from the San Bruno debacle.  All told, it will cost them about $5 billion.  They need to recoup those costs somewhere.  Customer get to pay for their mistake.

 

3)  the PUC allowed a 21% price increase.  This is extremely unusual.  Most rate increases allowed by PUC's around the country generally run 2% - 4%.  Nobody gripes too much.  My guess is that at the PUC public hearings, the PG&E lawyers made a compelling argument, and no one from the public showed up.  Did they have the hearings on July 4th weekend to be sure no one showed up?  I'm gonna go research it to find out.   Report later.       

[4thgenFolsomite]

new normal.  damn it!  thanks for doing the research.  

[Deb aka Resume Lady]

It's in the news.  PG&E won a 21% rate hike from the PUC last August, and it took effect on Jan 1, 2017.  

 

 

That's interesting, but my latest bill was 5X higher than the bill for the same time frame last year.

[ducky]

It's not just higher rates.  It's showing more therms used than last year.  The only thing I did different this year compared to last was cooked a turkey and baked Christmas cookies.  Apparently that was a $150 turkey.  I guess next year it's back to the deep-fried turkey.  Anybody know if you can bake cookies in a wood-burning pizza oven?  That's where I should have put my money instead of a new "efficient" heating and cooling system that I can't afford to use

 

Does anyone know if it's possible that gas could have been delivered to our homes under higher pressure than normal - not dangerous, just not recommended for appliances or residential limits - before the defect was discovered?.

[2 Aces]

This is a full-fledged scandal. There are some media outlets who are looking deeply into this.

 

We'll see what happens.

[4thgenFolsomite]

It's not just higher rates.  It's showing more therms used than last year.  The only thing I did different this year compared to last was cooked a turkey and baked Christmas cookies.  Apparently that was a $150 turkey.  I guess next year it's back to the deep-fried turkey.  Anybody know if you can bake cookies in a wood-burning pizza oven?  That's where I should have put my money instead of a new "efficient" heating and cooling system that I can't afford to use

 

You absolutely can cook cookies in a wood-burning pizza oven!  I use mine to do that, as well as bread, turkey, roasts, cupcakes, paella, baked lasagna, pita bread, crackers, sausages, steak...  and even pizza!!

[Who_Do_You_Trust]

4thgen - what time's dinner.  i'll even bring the wine.

[mrdavex]

 

Does anyone know if it's possible that gas could have been delivered to our homes under higher pressure than normal - not dangerous, just not recommended for appliances or residential limits - before the defect was discovered?.

 

Possible, but would not have resulted in increased gas bills.  Even if it was delivered to the homes at higher pressure than normal, each home has a pressure regulator at the meter (that round pointed thing) that brings down the pressure to the normal levels in the home.  Also, each appliance has their own  valve to make sure the right amount of gas is delivered.  For your stove, this is the knobs.  If higher pressure gas was really being sent to your stove, you'd have seen a bigger flame and would have turned down the knob.  On your oven, water heater, and furnace, it is your thermostat that turns on/off the burner, and if more gas was really been burned, the burner would have shut off much earlier when the set temp was reached.  

 

It's not just a Folsom issue.  I was in Santa Clara yesterday for work and my colleagues mentioned that their PG&E gas bills were surprisingly high too.

[mrdavex]

You absolutely can cook cookies in a wood-burning pizza oven!  I use mine to do that, as well as bread, turkey, roasts, cupcakes, paella, baked lasagna, pita bread, crackers, sausages, steak...  and even pizza!!

 

You can also use a BBQ as long as you have a good lid and thermometer.  I bake a lot of stuff in my BBQ during the summer to avoid heating up the house.

 

Also can use one of those electric convection Toaster ovens.  I also have an electric pressure cooker and use it most of the time now for soups, sauces, rice/grains, veggies, stews, and roasts.  Very quick and energy efficient; hardly use the stove and gas oven anymore.

[ducky]

You absolutely can cook cookies in a wood-burning pizza oven!  I use mine to do that, as well as bread, turkey, roasts, cupcakes, paella, baked lasagna, pita bread, crackers, sausages, steak...  and even pizza!!

 

That all sounds wonderful.  It's going on the project list.

[ducky]

 

Possible, but would not have resulted in increased gas bills.  Even if it was delivered to the homes at higher pressure than normal, each home has a pressure regulator at the meter (that round pointed thing) that brings down the pressure to the normal levels in the home.  Also, each appliance has their own  valve to make sure the right amount of gas is delivered.  For your stove, this is the knobs.  If higher pressure gas was really being sent to your stove, you'd have seen a bigger flame and would have turned down the knob.  On your oven, water heater, and furnace, it is your thermostat that turns on/off the burner, and if more gas was really been burned, the burner would have shut off much earlier when the set temp was reached.  

 

It's not just a Folsom issue.  I was in Santa Clara yesterday for work and my colleagues mentioned that their PG&E gas bills were surprisingly high too.

 

Thanks for answering that question.  I worry about the age of my meter and that round thingy.  The date on my meter is 1986 with a SMART meter slapped on it, but they've been by several times with the sniffy thing and don't say there is anything wrong.

So would you only notice decreased gas pressure, which seems like what Chris may have experienced as he described in his post?

 

We also do a lot of barbecuing in the summer for the same reasons and find the toaster oven and crock pot really handy.  Thank goodness we have SMUD for electric and at least don't have to deal with that surcharge other PG&E customers are getting.

[mrdavex]

 

Thanks for answering that question.  I worry about the age of my meter and that round thingy.  The date on my meter is 1986 with a SMART meter slapped on it, but they've been by several times with the sniffy thing and don't say there is anything wrong.

So would you only notice decreased gas pressure, which seems like what Chris may have experienced as he described in his post?

 

We also do a lot of barbecuing in the summer for the same reasons and find the toaster oven and crock pot really handy.  Thank goodness we have SMUD for electric and at least don't have to deal with that surcharge other PG&E customers are getting.

 

Yes, the regulator is mainly designed to protect against high pressures.  While it also tries to maintain a consistent pressure in the event of pressure drops, if there is not enough gas going in in the first place, it can't boost the pressure.  Regulators and meters do contain moving parts and have a defined lifetime.  Sometimes the utility company will proactively replace them.  If you're not smelling gas, and your flames look normal, then you're ok.  

Your house's gas lines are also well built (much stronger than water lines) and can sustain higher pressures than normal natural gas.  Natural gas pressure inside the house is usually 0.25 psi compared to water's 50 psi+.

 

At least you can go solar if your electric bill is too high.  Not really any alternative options for natural gas.  Propane is still much more expensive.

[caligirlz]

Final survey's going on this week per voice mail yesterday.