58 replies to this topic

[4thgenFolsomite]

Yeah, all those merchants' cars parked up and down the street really adds to the historic charm of Sutter Street. Sure beats those killer trees and that ugly, unhistoric median! (yes, this is sarcasm!).

Thank goodness the parking free for all is only a temporary condition (no, this is not sarcasm)!

On a brighter note, I'm happy to report that the bike racks near the Sutter Street Grille that were lost when the median was removed have been at least partially replaced in the parking lot across the street. One less car parking space and room for 12 or more customers to park their bikes!

please keep in mind that its those merchants who are paying for second saturday, thursday night market, the tree lighting and most of the other fun free events on the street. I think people love Sutter Street so much they forget that it is a place of business, not a city park. some merchants are parking on the street, but its a minority. I love seeing all the cars back on the street. it creates a sense of vitality and shows activity. merchants I've talked to are saying that there are more people on the street with the onstreet parking, not fewer. And while bikes have their place, most bikers are not shopping on the street. They typically frequent the coffee shops, restaurants, candy store, etc. and come for the events, but they aren't buying in the stores. People may argue that they will come back later and shop, but giving up a car space for bike riders means one less person who may be actually shopping and buying that very day.

we need to support the merchants who put on these great events. I think last night was great. by the way, the fashion show at 6 pm really showed how many clothing, handbag and shoe boutiques there are on the street. somehow I had missed that they were there. it also showed the amazing talent we have on the street. G.F. and Penny Cloud played an hour of absolutely fantastic music to start the evening off. They were great! Thank you Sutter Street Merchants!

[4thgenFolsomite]

And, by the way, didn't the city just spend $14m on a nice parking garage for cars? Why is it that such people driving around in $20k, $30k, $40k, $50k cars need such extravagant subsidized parking... and free on-street parking to boot?

like I said, bikes have a place, but not at the cost of displacing vehicle parking. there is also lots of parking for bikes in that new structure. I suppose if people can ride their bike to the district, they can walk from the garage too.

and Jim Snooks is not offended by my comment. I already talked to him. He agrees. I think we should have lots of bike racks near Karens and Black Rooster/Sutter Street Grill, just not taking up car parking on the street. We're going to have far fewer car parking spaces on the street when revitalization is done than we did before this all started. I hear there is going to be 54 bike racks on the street. That sounds like plenty to me.

[Folsom_Blues]

Bicycles *ARE* vehicles and have every right to the road as much as any other user.

Credit cards are light and can be carried easily. I'd love to see someone put an antique dining room set into the back of a Prius.

And, the pedestrian situation out there was dangerous as brought up by many people. Lots of people are cruising for parking spots that aren't available since the merchants are parked in them.

[mylo]

How do you carry a clock on a bicycle?

[Folsom_Blues]

Just in case you need a refresher on the CVC:

21200. (a) Every person riding a bicycle upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this division...

Except for parking space in the Folsom Historic District because they just tend to either just eat or drink at the many fine establishments.

[4thgenFolsomite]

Just in case you need a refresher on the CVC:

21200. (a) Every person riding a bicycle upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this division...

Except for parking space in the Folsom Historic District because they just tend to either just eat or drink at the many fine establishments.

oh dear, I have offended bicycle advocates. I'll say it again, bikes have their place in the historic district, just not at the cost of displacing vehicular parking. I believe the anticipated 54 bike racks should be sufficient, plus there is a lot more parking in the new garage. Wow, you guys really get pushy about this stuff, don't you? I thought bike riders were supposed to be a peaceful happy group.

[MrsTuffPaws]

I thought bike riders were supposed to be a peaceful happy group.

You haven't met many bicycle enthusiasts, have you.

[tony]

like I said, bikes have a place, but not at the cost of displacing vehicle parking. there is also lots of parking for bikes in that new structure. I suppose if people can ride their bike to the district, they can walk from the garage too.

and Jim Snooks is not offended by my comment. I already talked to him. He agrees. I think we should have lots of bike racks near Karens and Black Rooster/Sutter Street Grill, just not taking up car parking on the street. We're going to have far fewer car parking spaces on the street when revitalization is done than we did before this all started. I hear there is going to be 54 bike racks on the street. That sounds like plenty to me.

For the record, there is space for long-term bike parking in the garage, geared primarily for light rail commuters; it is not currently available because the space has not been finished (wasn't funded by the parking garage construction).

The only reason removing parking spaces for bike parking is being considered is because bike parking was not adequately addressed in the final streetscape design plans (none in the 800 block and none on the north side of the 700 block). As for the proposed racks, it's not the number that matters, it's the distribution. Of the 54 racks proposed in the project, about half are on Leidesdorff or Wool (fully 1/4 of them are on Leidesdorff across the street from Karen's - arguably a good place for them, but only in terms of serving Karen's and whatever goes in across the street). To be useful, bike parking needs to be close to destinations for three reasons: 1) that's one of the great advantages of bicycling - the ability to park close to your destination, 2) many bicyclists do not carry locks and will not leave their bikes out of sight and 3) if convenient bike parking is not easily found, bicyclists will park wherever they can find space (so unless we're going to actively ban bicycles from Sutter Street, the best way to avoid chaotic bike parking is to provide convenient bike parking).

As for the on-street car parking spots, really, there are going to be a lot less after the project is done than before it started? Even if true, they will be far better distributed along the street. Before the project there were none in the 700 block and none on the south side of the 800 block (where the greatest demand for bike parking currently is - at the Black Rooster and SSG). In contrast, according to the plans, there will at least a dozen on-street car parking spots in each block now. This is far more than the bike parking proposed and was done at the cost of the advertised wider sidewalks. Think about it. Every one of those on-street parking spaces eliminates a significant chunk of the pedestrian environment, including the potential for sidewalk dining in many areas. Is the district primarily for cars, or for the people that they might bring to the street?

Last time I checked, a vibrant downtown was measured by the number of people on the street, not the number of cars on the street. Particularly in the Historic District, which was built before there were cars, it's time to stop equating cars with people and start looking at making the most of all the ways we have to get people into the district. I like to think there's a lot more to Sutter Street than motorist convenience. There are at least five modes of transportation available in the district (not including pedi-cabs!). What I'm hearing is that only one of them counts to (at least some of) the merchants. Seems pretty short-sighted to me.

[4thgenFolsomite]

What I'm hearing is that only one of them counts to (at least some of) the merchants. Seems pretty short-sighted to me.

before streetscape started, there were roughly 280 parking spaces on Sutter Street. That number is below 200 when its done. Add the construction of new buildings with infill and you lose more spaces while gaining more users (apartment and lofts on railroad block, two floors of office space and one of restaurant and retail in the new Scalzi building). There is inadequate parking for cars in the district. There has been and it will be worse in the future. Cars equal shoppers. Sorry, but its the world we live in. You may call the merchants short-sighted, but it seems to me like you are being selfish and one-sided. It's a business district, not a park. I don't see a ton of bike racks up near CostCo or Sams or the Broadstone mall or Target or Walmart.

we all love the historic district. some people's livelihoods depend on it. Bike parking has been addressed and while it may not be ideal or exactly what you want, please learn to share.

[mylo]

Seriously, a clock?

[chris v]

oh dear, I have offended bicycle advocates. I'll say it again, bikes have their place in the historic district, just not at the cost of displacing vehicular parking. I believe the anticipated 54 bike racks should be sufficient, plus there is a lot more parking in the new garage. Wow, you guys really get pushy about this stuff, don't you? I thought bike riders were supposed to be a peaceful happy group.

What about motorcycles... Can they use car parking spots? How is it any different than bicycles? Bicycles and Pedestrians actually have more rights to the road than cars do. Cars have to yield to bicycles.

[tony]

How do you carry a clock on a bicycle?

Funny you should ask. When I go to the clock shop, it's generally for a watch repair. It's pretty easy to carry a watch on a bike. But, if I were to buy a clock (short of a grandfather clock), I would do it the same way I carry groceries, hardware, jewelry, books, clothes...generally in a bag on a rack. I've carried the full-size set of streetscape plans on my bike, a 2.5'x2.5' bathroom mirror (from Sutter Street), a toaster oven, easels and flip charts, dinner for two, a laptop for about a year, eight kids basketballs, and, with the help of a trailer, lumber and a sink (not the kitchen one). Oh, and yes, I've taken all four of my children on a bike (more of a train, actually) - legally and safely.

This is a common anti-bike straw man argument (how can you carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood home on your bike? See FB's Prius respons.) The reality is, most shopping trips result in purchases that fit neatly into one or two plastic bags. Anything bigger can usually be delivered (that 4x8 sheet of plywood, a yard of bark, a water heater, etc.)

[mylo]

What about motorcycles... Can they use car parking spots? How is it any different than bicycles? Bicycles and Pedestrians actually have more rights to the road than cars do. Cars have to yield to bicycles.

I don't mind bicycles, as long as they follow the law. I've almost mowed a few over who run stop signs. Just because you have right of way, doesn't mean you don't have to obey the laws of the road!

I'm all for more pedestrian-friendly parking options. I understand the need for street parking, and think there's more than enough room for bicycle parking, too. Doesn't mean you get (or deserve) a handicapped-style space right in front of the shop.

Everyone should have to walk just as much. Bicycles, and motorcycles, can park just as easily over by the parking garage.

[Folsom_Blues]

I guess if you want Sutter St to have the same ambiance as Target, CostCo or Sam's Club, then keep up the good work!

If you want a suburban strip mall, then please relocate to one, there are plenty of empty ones around Folsom! (Oh, and plenty of empty parking space too!)

[tony]

I thought bike riders were supposed to be a peaceful happy group.

We are, until we start getting run over or run out of town by motorists.