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#1 Steve Heard

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:16 PM

Okay, here's the deal, high school senior, behind in credits, going to the continuation school so she can earn them faster. School is 9 to noon.

I think she should come home after school, and be home every night for dinner, maybe getting an exception once a week. Weekends, free.

My wife thinks that is ridiculously harsh, that she has no homework with the continuation school, and it seems punitive that the rest of the day be spent at home. She is a senior, and should be allowed to have fun.

I say she needs our influence in her life as much as possible, or at least, not being totally influenced by her friends, with no discipline or responsibility, all day long. If I can keep her at home, even if it's doing absolutely nothing, it's better than hanging out.

My wife thinks that since she has no responsibilities, let's not make any up. She's basically good (aren't they all), and she'll have plenty of time to be serious about life.

I think that people have lost sight of what being a teen is about. It's not about a non-stop party, it's about preparing for adulthood.

What do you all think (other than the district is nuts to have a 3 hour school day for kids who have already fallen behind). And let me remind you, it's always easier said than done!

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#2 Farley

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:26 PM

As a former senior high school teacher, I feel your daughter is being cheated. Continuation schools have been around for many years, but the experience is a far cry from going to high school experience.

A pattern of just getting by is not a very good life pattern in my personal opinion.

Having responsibility is what leads to accomplishments and self-esteem.

#3 Deb aka Resume Lady

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 05:07 PM

I'm shocked to hear your daughter's school day is so short and that she has no homework. What is the point? Why force her to stay in school if she isn't really getting what a senior should get? So this whole year is basically a play year? I shudder!

What are your daughter's goals following school? Is there anything she can be doing to help her towards those goals? What classes will she be taking? Does she have a job as well?

I tend to agree with you, but am wondering what other structured activities and responsibilities your daughter can have to occupy some of her time. To get into a pattern of doing nothing and spending all of her time playing and hanging out isn 't going to prepare her for anything that exists in the real world. I'm curious about her goals before even trying to think of input.

Still shuddering. Shuddering some more.
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#4 slowthegrowth

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 05:11 PM

My daughter started her senior year at FHS today and I can sympathize with your plight. She is also a "good kid"....I can trust her and honestly believe that she is not involved in the illegal activities that are everywhere these days.

Because she doesn't get into trouble....comes home mostly right on time....let's us know where she is...gets good grades.....I have no reason to tie her down to the house....just because I want to. I set a reasonable curfew (10 on school nights, 1 on Fri/Sat) and she obeys it.

Could she be staying at home and studying to get even better grades....sure. But we're happy with her grades now.

I truly believe that, at her age (17 1/2), she's heard all of the advice I can give her regarding right/wrong and about being accountable for her own actions. She knows that it's all about HER choices. What I try to instill in her now is that she needs to realize that, very soon, she will be 18. At that point, she is completely responsible for her actions.

Is your daughter 18 yet? Has she made mistakes that might make you worry about what she's doing when she's out? If so, then I could imagine that you'd have reason to want her closer to the house than otherwise.

If she hasn't....and has been able to keep her nose clean until now, then I think we as parents have the obligation to allow them the slack due a person who has earned trust for that long.

All of this, of course, is courtesy of my own opinion.

#5 bordercolliefan

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 05:38 PM

What is a continuation school? Does one go to continuation school after completing 4 years of high school, or in lieu of the final year??

#6 beachbum

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 05:55 PM

Agree with you. Senior year should be fun, but there should also be responsibilities. Hard to believe there is no homework!

What chores does she do around the house? Are there any activities she can be involved with, such as volunteering, getting a job?

But, sometimes people think I'm too strict, I think kids should be part of the household and contribute to the well-being of the family, whatever is age-appropriate.


#7 Farley

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 06:21 PM

Continuation schools - Small schools designed to meet the needs of students at risk of not completing their schooling or lacking enough credits for graduation.


http://www.cta.org/C...9/Feature_1.htm

#8 Deb aka Resume Lady

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 06:44 PM

My husband's and my parenting philosophy has been that it is our responsibility to get our children to adulthood (age 18) and that freedoms, privileges and trust have to be earned. Your daughter is just turning 17, and there is a reason she was pulled from public school; this is a public forum and people know who you are, so I would not ask you to post the reasons she was pulled. But those reasons have to be taken into consideration to determine how trustworthy and responsible she is now.

Until she is 18, you are entitled as a parent to withhold freedoms, to instill structure, to insist upon her helping around the house, etc. You are still teaching her life lessons, including a sense of responsibility and family contribution and goal-setting and steps toward achieving goals. When she is 18, she is free to move out on her own and make her own decisions, but she has not yet reached adulthood and has engaged in some sort of behavior that has resulted in being removed from public school -- therefore, she is probably not making wise decisions yet. You may want to start the year out more structured, but establish criteria for earning more independence and privileges. Some of that criteria may have to do with taking steps necessary toward whatever goals she has following high school (hence my earlier question about her goals).
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#9 Cloud9

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 08:09 PM

Steve, if your wife thinks you're harsh, then I must be the devil incarnate.

I have to admit, this is the first I've heard of continuation school.

I simply don't understand the concept of going to school less hours to make up for credits that you're behind. (This is one looney state) Kindergarten is 3.5hrs, please don't tell me that H.S. is 3hrs.

In NY if you fell behind you had your regular H.S. (7:30-2:30) and then you attended school in the afternoons and made up the rest by attending summer school (8:00-2:30), and many kids worked after school in addition to having plenty of homework.

In Germany if you weren't headed for college, then you were studying for a trade to become a productive citizen.

It should be noted that my comments don't come from experience with teenagers, but how about a compromise? Doing nothing at home certainly doesn't teach her anything.

What are regular H.S. hours + homework? Those should be the same number of hours that she should be home studying. (In my way of thinking, why should she be 'rewarded' for falling behind? - less school hours, no homework, more free time)

Since there is no homework, perhaps you can work with her to find something that would be of interest to her during those hours and have her learn to research the topic. What are her plans after H.S.? Time to start thinking about that if she's not college bound, and if she is, better get cracking on the books.

I remember having plenty of fun in my H.S. days, college too, and I went to school for more than 3hrs and had homework to boot.

As we all know, life isn't one big party where you get to hang out and have fun for most of the day and only work or school for 3hrs. It wouldn't be fair to her to let her develop that perception.

Between doing nothing all day at home and just school for 3hrs there's a big gap - Surely a compromise that works for all can be achieved. I certainly wouldn't vote for hanging out only between the hours of noon and 10pm M-F with Sat and Sun being all day free time - that's 40hrs of free time during the week and probably another 20 on the weekends!


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#10 Steve Heard

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 08:35 PM

Thank you all for your opinions.

My daughter is in continuation school because she fell far behind in credits. She had a terrible time adjusting when we moved here, and went on an emotional, hormone induced rampage.

She went from kindergarten to 7th grade with the same kids, in a mixed race environment in the Bay Area. Suddenly, she's living in a new area, where she is one of the few minorities, had no friends, and just 12 years old.

Middle School was heck on her. She rebelled, and fell so far behind in her grades that now, even though she's over the bad stuff, she needs to play catch up to graduate. I went to see her counselor last year, and as she's looking at the grades, she says, "Oh, my! She's not going to earn enough credits to graduate! She's going to have to go to continuation school"

With the continuation school, she can earn credit for work experience and the continuation school requires fewer credits for graduation.

Her and most of her friends don't like what they consider an over crowded, snobby school. They seem to think you're a sucker to go to school for 6 hours a day, and do homework, when you can do 3 hours, no homework, and still get a diploma. It really doesn't matter what she thinks now. T ra nd much prefer a sc with

Several of her friends are there because they convinced their parents that they need it, that they don't do well in a structured environment, real school is too hard, etc. I remember them bragging to one another about how they were going to get to go there. Some parents cave in and consider that it is better than nothing.

Funny thing is, she begged me to let her go there, and I refused. 2 years ago, she even wrote me a rather eloquent letter, 3 pages long, explaining how stupid she was, and how she was incapable of learning in the regular school, and how we'd all be better off, and less stressed, if she went to continuation school. I told her the letter was brilliantly written, with correct punctuation, no spelling errors, and liked the way she presented her argument from different angles, in an attempt to try to cut me off from countering her.

She was pretty disappointed when I told her that if she was trying to prove she wasn't smart, she had just proved the opposite. I told her she should have written, "Me not good skool"

Now that she's fallen so far behind, we have little choice. I don't like it. The current program seems to be the way the state gets by with graduating more kids.

My daughter's goals change often, and that's okay. She doesn't have to have her life planned out. I do want her to continue her education, and she plans on going to a JC for 2 years, then transferring out to Sac State or some other college.

We went over some new rules tonight, and she didn't like them all, but was surprisingly open to the new structure, though terribly offended that I've seen and read her myspace.

By the way, she goes to school with kids who are rich, poor, from single parent households, traditional families, newbies, long time residents, religious and atheist. Some of the parents dote over them, some had them in every sport, every club, and artistic activity they could find. Some seem to be lousy parents. Some seem great.

I know a husband and wife who are instructors and administrators at a local college. Their son went to continuation school, while their daughter is an A student.

I obviously don't have all the answers. In fact, I didn't really expect any. I just had to scream out.

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#11 Deb aka Resume Lady

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 08:45 PM

I love the fact that teens who post in myspace.com or other online, public journals are bothered when they discover that their parents can and do read their posts. beaker.gif

I'm sorry to hear your daughter had such a hard time when she moved here. I'm still not clear why the district doesn't require students to attend summer school to help make up for credits instead of letting them graduate with fewer. Seems counterintuitive to me.

I'm glad your daughter was open to the new structure; she probably recognizes that she needs it. If she intends to go to college, would she be open to doing extra studying in preparation? If she is allowed to graduate with fewer units, won't that put her behind academically? Can she take a class or two at FLC while she's in continuation school? (I know home schooling high school students can take community college classes at the same time.) Maybe she could take an elective that would be of particular interest to her.

I hope the new structure and rules work out for all of you and wish your daughter the best.


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#12 Cloud9

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 08:48 PM

Another benefit of myfolsom.com - therapy! smile.gif

I'm sure one day we may run into this issue, but hopefully by then our kids will know that if they can't learn in a traditional classroom setting for say 6hrs a day, that they'll be studying in a non traditional setting for 7hrs a day.

My 4yr old already knows the drill, when I say, "5 minutes left" and he used to say, "I don't like 5 minutes, I want 10 minutes" - my response is always the same, you don't like 5 minutes, then you have 4, and if you don't like 4 there's always 3.

For a while he tried 15, 20 minutes, then caught on and tried 9, 8, 7, 6. But he knows the magic number is 5.
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#13 DavidH

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 09:17 PM

QUOTE
With the continuation school, she can earn credit for work experience and the continuation school requires fewer credits for graduation.


I think it's amazing how students can "make up" credits in continuation school with significantly fewer hours and virtually no homework. There was a student (valedictorian, as I recall) at Folsom Lake HS a couple years ago that claimed to enter FLHS in the spring 50 credits short of the 220 required for graduation and made it up in a few short months. Students at Folsom High take an entire YEAR to earn 60 credits, leading to the 240 required for graduation (the lack of physical ed. at the continuation HS makes up the deficit).

Can anyone explain how this is possible? Sure, these kids fell behind, don't fit into the regular model, but how is an abbreviated day, no accountabilty, and running them through what could be described as a credit mill helping them?

Steve...I think you have the right idea. Structure, expectations, accountability are all good things in helping her prepare for the "real world."

#14 Im not a soldier

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 10:35 PM

Hello Everyone-

I am Jenny, Steve's daughter. I have to disagree on my father getting opinions about my life on the adult version of myspace. I think it's unfair and rude. I was left with no choice but to state my side of the story.

I am almost 17, I am on my last year of high school at Folsom Lake continuation. Folsom Lake has been the best thing that has ever happened to me. Although it is 3 hours of schooling, unlike folsom high even if you dont do all the work you can still get credit for what you did do. Say you were taking english at folsom high and you did half the assignments which leaves you with an F and zero credits. If you do half the work at Folsom Lake you get half the credits.

I have been slacking off in school since 6th grade. Ever since I actually realized what school was, I decided I didn't need it. Mistake, I know.

Freshmen and Sophomore year I really screwed up, which made me have very little credits. Now that I have done a little more maturing, I realize how horrible it was and there is almost no going back. You can get at the most 50 credits a year with doing work and 20 with ROP(work experience). I just got a new job at Taco Bell, and I'm in ROP. I figure that, since this is my last year in high school and I need to buckle down. I'm actually going to do my work in order to gain all those credits. If I get all 70 I will have just enough to graduate by the end of the year, so believe me i will try my hardest.

I believe that hanging out after school has nothing to do with my school work. It doesn't make me consentrate less, or make me do less work. I don't have homework at my school, so there is no need to be home. I can agree with my dad on spending SOME family time. But like most teenagers will say, friends are the most important thing when your my age.


#15 Im not a soldier

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 10:42 PM

That's my girl.

She says she's willing to take what you have to say.




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