Jump to content






Photo
- - - - -

Brown Water


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#16 maestro

maestro

    Superstar

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 744 posts

Posted 13 August 2012 - 11:38 AM

[quote name='redman' timestamp='1344833285' post='447203']
It is very unlikely to be sewer related. Potable water is delivered under pressure. Sewage flows by gravity at zero pressure, therefore it can't get into a pressurized water main. The only way sewage could be getting into your bathtub is back flowing up the drain due to a clogged line.

I'm a water system engineer by the way.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

You are very wrong about city sewage conveyance. There are multiple pressurized manholes and dubious cross connections of the 36" and 24" sewage mains, plus untold numbers of local issues.

Water Board is currently handling complaints regarding sinkhole next to water line and sanitary sewer interface. Isn't that a way for water and raw sewage to mix? City refuses to get out and check the sinkhole which is now quite deep and the depression extends about 40' in diameter. Complaints also made about illegal connection to sanitary lift station: built next to river for a small subdivision, city connected a huge and growing commercial use to it. Makes the people extremely nervous about sanitary sewer overspills.

Do you know how many SS manholes were pressurized to allow them to be extra storage?
Do you know how many SS manhole covers are bolted down to prevent a spillover entering streets?

Use Regional Water Quality Control Board contact!!! youtube too Better safe than polluted by the most dangerous material on earth -- raw sewage.

#17 ducky

ducky

    untitled

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,115 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 13 August 2012 - 02:44 PM

The pipes in question were intended for reclaimed water in the future but were used for potable water when the reclaimed water did not materialize.The purple pipes are located in Empire Ranch mainly around golf links drive.There are no such devices to stop sewer backflow on the sewer system,there are backflow devices on the potable lines but only on commercial and landscape services.


Okay. Your comment about the purple lines makes sense. It's a shame they didn't actually use it for reclaimed water. It's never made sense to me to use drinking water on lawns & landscaping.

The answer about the sewers surprises me. I'm wondering why there aren't more instances of a house that happens to be on the low end of the line having problems when there is a blockage.

#18 backflow

backflow

    Netizen

  • Registered Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 14 August 2012 - 01:20 PM

Okay. Your comment about the purple lines makes sense. It's a shame they didn't actually use it for reclaimed water. It's never made sense to me to use drinking water on lawns & landscaping.

The answer about the sewers surprises me. I'm wondering why there aren't more instances of a house that happens to be on the low end of the line having problems when there is a blockage.

Blockages are rare but they do happen from time to time.I know of a few instances in folsom where residents were getting backups in toilets,city crews ran camera down residents sewer line.They discovered the sewer line terminated in the residents yard and was never hooked up to city sewer main.As they say stuff happens.

#19 ducky

ducky

    untitled

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,115 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 14 August 2012 - 01:24 PM

Blockages are rare but they do happen from time to time.I know of a few instances in folsom where residents were getting backups in toilets,city crews ran camera down residents sewer line.They discovered the sewer line terminated in the residents yard and was never hooked up to city sewer main.As they say stuff happens.


Yuck. Appropriate saying in that case.

I was thinking more along the lines of tree roots.

The city has done smoke tests in the neighborhood in the past. I always thought that would show if you had that kind of a problem going on or a connection that wasn't quite right.

#20 backflow

backflow

    Netizen

  • Registered Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 14 August 2012 - 01:49 PM

Yuck. Appropriate saying in that case.

I was thinking more along the lines of tree roots.

The city has done smoke tests in the neighborhood in the past. I always thought that would show if you had that kind of a problem going on or a connection that wasn't quite right.

they will show those kinds of problems , but it takes a lot of time to test all the lines.

#21 sweetpeasmom

sweetpeasmom

    Veteran

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 192 posts

Posted 16 August 2012 - 02:17 PM

I did call the city and they were quick to respond and say they would come out and flush the line but the water cleared the next day so they didn't come. They were very responsive. This happened (much worse) a few years ago and we could NOT get help. We were just told it was safe and not contaminated (not sure how they knew that). Glad they are more responsive now.

We also have a "knocking" water line. When our back sprinklers go on, we hear a knocking sound in the pipes. It's been like that the entire time we've lived here (11 years and bought the house new). We had the builder take a look and just this week had landscapers look at it. Both said it is not a problem except for the sound it makes.

We had our water heater replaced less than a year ago.

I'm kind of wishing I hadn't read these other posts. I think that's just information I don't want to have. :yikesss:

#22 redman

redman

    All Star

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 323 posts
  • Location:California Hills Subdivision, Folsom, CA

Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:42 PM

I maintain that these comments about sewage getting into drinking water are off base. Water pipelines operate at 40-60 psi. How is sewage, even leaked sewage from a pressurized sewer force main, going to push its way into a pressurized water pipeline and get to homes? It can't happen.

A cross connection between a sewer force main and a potable water pipe is unheard of.

@maestro: The issues you described are real problems (sewer spills onto streets and into creeks, sinkholes, etc.) but none of this will result in sewage getting into a water line. The only exception is if a water line breaks and looses pressure. But then, loss of pressure means no potable water gets to those homes, and the repair procedure involves draining, repair, and thorough disinfection before it is put back into service.

#23 backflow

backflow

    Netizen

  • Registered Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:07 PM

I maintain that these comments about sewage getting into drinking water are off base. Water pipelines operate at 40-60 psi. How is sewage, even leaked sewage from a pressurized sewer force main, going to push its way into a pressurized water pipeline and get to homes? It can't happen.

A cross connection between a sewer force main and a potable water pipe is unheard of.

@maestro: The issues you described are real problems (sewer spills onto streets and into creeks, sinkholes, etc.) but none of this will result in sewage getting into a water line. The only exception is if a water line breaks and looses pressure. But then, loss of pressure means no potable water gets to those homes, and the repair procedure involves draining, repair, and thorough disinfection before it is put back into service.

There are a number of ways nonpotable water can enter drinking water lines.I will just give you one senario. When a drinking water line breaks it is depressurized,thereby allowing water contaminated by surrounding soils to enter the pipeline.If the break is at a highest elevation of the depressurized pipeline there will even be a vacume created,thereby sucking the contaminates into the pipeline.Water being used down gradient can still be drawn into homes.If you would like a demonstration of this look no further than a few years ago when folsoms raw water pipeline from the dam was depressurized,the vacume was so great that it crushed the 36" steel pipeline like a soda can.

#24 backflow

backflow

    Netizen

  • Registered Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:15 PM

This is off the San Fracisco Department of Public Health website.
"A cross connection is a potential connection between a potable water system and a source of contamination, such as waste water, where backflow can occur from the source of contamination and cause a serious public health hazard. The Environmental Health Section certifies backflow prevention testers and inspects for cross connections in the City to ensure San Francisco residents have clean and safe potable water".

To say that there is not any way to have sewer lines or non potable sources connected to public drinking water supply lines is incorrect.We as water proffesionals recognize that these things can and do happen and are always on the lookout for any conditions that can compromise our public drinking water supply.

#25 backflow

backflow

    Netizen

  • Registered Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:50 PM

http://www.irrigatio...tobackflow.html

This gives a better explaination of the different ways in which drinking water systems can be compromised.

#26 redman

redman

    All Star

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 323 posts
  • Location:California Hills Subdivision, Folsom, CA

Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:52 PM

I did acknowledge the scenario of a broken water main in my last post. Did you not see that?

Anything CAN happen (other than low pressure water forcing itself into a higher pressure pipe), but my point is that these contamination scenarios are RARE and the repair procedures for a broken line include careful cleaning and disinfection prior to putting lines back into service.

We all need to be wary but the risk of sewage contamination related to the original poster's question (brown water) is way overblown here.

That's all I'm saying.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users