54 replies to this topic

[tgianco]

Seriously, I find most of your posts offensive. Folsom Middle HAD to be remodeled, it was small, and almost all portable classrooms, so of course the final product will be a liitle nicer than Sutter as it was only remodernized. I am confused about what is more important to you esthetics or education. Also the Folsom Girls softball Association is in the process of revitalizing the ball park at Sutter Middle. This whole town is revitalizing for goodness sake it takes time. I have lived here my whole life and I see improvments everywhare, I mean some faster than others but still improvements.

Also if you are building a new high school and there is potential for improvement or to try something new, do you NOT do it because the other schools don't. And finally If you compared all the differant elementary schools they are differant in esthetics and in income bracket and so on, the bottom line is, do you do take everyones income, and then spread the kids out accordingly so every school is balanced? Then kids really would be separated from friends... And who knows where your kid would end up. Face it, differant neighborhoods with differant size homes have differant pricetags, and there is a for the most part differances to household income, and the school you attend is the one closest to you, so there is probability that differant schools can be and indication of income levels, but when you get to the Middle shool, high school level, there is only 2 of each so the whole town has to fit into them, there has to boundaries somewhere. These middle schools were existing schools, while the city keeps buikding homes so geographicaly it's going to be cut and dry, and with the high schools, those are strangely located also so it a strange boundary line also.

Also I admit I live in Willowcreek, where does that leave me? Low, High, Middle income? So where should my kids go? Theodore Judah for example is in an older area, and it is not as populated with k-6 graders, so children are brought in from other neighborhoods with overcrowding problems, at this point, Folsom seems to be trying to fix the boundary problems we already have.

Perfect response. Summed up what the more mature part (don't worry, it's small) of me meant to say.

[lisasellshouses]

I think size of the school plays into this.

Folsom High has 2800 students to date.

Vista was built to hold 1500 therefore less schools will feed into this school.

right now, if you son or daughter wanted to go to vista they could as a freshman or soph regardless of where you live within the city.

My question: why are you assuming that those that are in apt around town are low income?

I know several families are having homes built, just sold one and waiting to move into another. and for one reason or another are not living in a house, but that does not make them low income.

empire oaks area is the newest area to our city, they will have the lowest number of apt complexs.

Where do you want the boundaries to be?

[tgianco]

why isn't Theodore Judah and Blanche Sprentz students attending the new high school? The schools are very close together anyways so why not split the schools by test scores and have an even mixture of scores attending the schools.....

ABH: Tgianco, what are the worst schools in the Folsom school system?

Me: Well that would be hard to say, sir. They're each outstanding in their own way.

ABH: Cut the horsestuff, son. I've got their test scores right here. Whose academic test scores came in last? Who has lower incomes? Every Halloween, the trees are filled with underwear. Every spring, the toilets explode.

Me: Well, according to your line of thinking, that might be either Judah or Blanche Sprentz.

ABH: Of course I'm talking about Judah or Blanche Sprentz, you twerp.

[lisasellshouses]

My whole point is to show how the school district is making boundaries.....

It's not me who is making the boundaries down Oak Avenue, but the school district...

Why is Vista Lago going to be more academic vs. Folsom High? Folsom High will serve the most students, so shouldn't it focus more on academics in order to serve the most students???? Am I the only one who is realizing this boundary map is not really favoring the lower income students? Just because you are lower income, does it mean you automatically aren't interested in a more academic school? Such elitist bcrap....

The highest elementary API scores are the following:
Empire Ranch, Folsom Hills, Sandra J. Gallardo and Gold Ridge.......These are the highest academic scores in this area...Two schools from the highest will attend Vista Del Lago and two from the highest schools will attend Folsom High....However, why are we making the students from Blanche Sprentz, Theodore Judah, Natoma Station, Carl Sundhal, Gallardo, and (Gold Ridge-I think) attend Folsom High? Only Empire Ranch, Folsom Hills, and Oak Chan students get to attend Vista Del Lago.....Why not make the bottom scoring populations more evened out? What's wrong with questioning the boundary lines? All of the bottom scoring schools, not in any order, (Theodore Judah, Blanche Sprentz, Natoma Station, Carl Sundhal) are attending Folsom High.....If you look at the demographics, more black and hispanic students will attend Folsom High....These two groups are the lowest test scoring students by miniorities...Asians weren't included because they score higher than Caucassians in most schools. Why does this make a difference? Because it shows how the boundaries are creating a lesser academic school for miniorities....School quality should be equal for all students especially when the schools are located so close together in Folsom.....Creating an educational boundary that excludes lower income and miniorities should be illegal when those students live closer to the new high school....The boundaries were set supposedly by location to the school, but if that's true why isn't Theodore Judah and Blanche Sprentz students attending the new high school? The schools are very close together anyways so why not split the schools by test scores and have an even mixture of scores attending the schools.....

I am not convinced that Vista will be better academically than FHS. Casa Roble has the block system and there test scores are no where near FHS.( API Scores, FHS 828, Casa 741) Granite bay is also block and they have an API of 830. Granite bay has only 2000 students this year and the API was with 1500 students.

I dont think there is enough evidence to support this.

Does anybody remember the poll out last year by the school district that about this block scheduling? Those that participated overwhelming did not support this block schedule but the new superintendent did, so now we have it.

[cw68]

My daughter doesn't attend the school yet....I'm very involved in her current school..Every year, they have a clean the school up day....

So your daughter is embarrassed to attend a school she doesn't attend yet? That means she is most definitely judging it on its looks. My daughter is too young to go there yet as well, btw. Did she ever stop to think that it could be the most wonderful school because of the teachers, etc? That stinks that she already has a bad judgement of something she hasn't even seen first-hand yet.

[cw68]

The highest elementary API scores are the following:
Empire Ranch, Folsom Hills, Sandra J. Gallardo and Gold Ridge.......These are the highest academic scores in this area...Two schools from the highest will attend Vista Del Lago and two from the highest schools will attend Folsom High....However, why are we making the students from Blanche Sprentz, Theodore Judah, Natoma Station, Carl Sundhal, Gallardo, and (Gold Ridge-I think) attend Folsom High? Only Empire Ranch, Folsom Hills, and Oak Chan students get to attend Vista Del Lago.....Why not make the bottom scoring populations more evened out? What's wrong with questioning the boundary lines? All of the bottom scoring schools, not in any order, (Theodore Judah, Blanche Sprentz, Natoma Station, Carl Sundhal) are attending Folsom High.....

API scores are bullcrap. There are so many more things that factor into making a school a good one. My daugther goes to Natoma Station, which is a Blue Ribbon school (one of your criteria that makes a school good, btw), and I think it's a great school. The principal is wonderfu, the teachers seem great and the community surrounding the school is very supporting. The facilities seem fine to me, though I know there are burnt-out lightbulbs, etc. The school budgets are very small compared to expenses, so I'm not going to judge them on that.

Blance Sprentz has great teacher/student, student/classroom, student/computer ratios etc. Those things contribute to a great school and I know that plenty of parents I know who have children at that school think it's a great school.

You want to start busing my child to a different school in the name of economics? Build the neighborhoods, let kids walk to school and don't automatically think they are of a lessor economic status just because of the house/neighborhood in which they live.

[joy]

As I remember, the new Vista lago high is currently only taking two grades as it's not in full blown capcity/enrollment yet. Plus the district probably wants to leave some room for growth as most of the new housing is toward the easter side of Folsom.

[lisasellshouses]

As I remember, the new Vista lago high is currently only taking two grades as it's not in full blown capcity/enrollment yet. Plus the district probably wants to leave some room for growth as most of the new housing is toward the easter side of Folsom.

thats right, freshman and soph only this upcoming year.

We will probably not see it even reach it levels within grades for a few years since there are still lots of students who are at folsom high as fresh, staying as soph. who boundary wise should go to vista but the district gave them a time frame to choose.

[DavidH]

...Why isn't Sutter a distinguished school...Supposedly, you think the schools are in the same demographic, so why don't they have the same recognition? Obviously, something isn't equal...

I don't believe the state (or the feds, in the case of Blue Ribbon schools) just go around and hand out the designation. There is ALOT of work that the principal, staff, and others undertake to apply for distinguished school status and undergo the rigorous evaluation process. It could be that the principal of Sutter Middle School isn't as ambitious or confident as was the principal of Folsom Middle School.

That said, the honors don't necessarily make one school better than another. A school is a community of students, parents, teachers, staff, and administrators -- each affecting the outcome of the student's educational experience. You can't tell me that if I have a child going to Natoma Station Elementary, which has received both the state distinguished school and national blue ribbon designations, s/he is guaranteed an excellent education. Oh yeah, both those designations were received under a prior principal. How does that factor into their value today?

Why is Vista Lago going to be more academic vs. Folsom High?

Where are you coming up with this #$%& ? It's a school that will be accredited by WASC just like FHS. Will it have different opportunities? Sure, it would be dumb to have a twin of FHS. Will it produce smarter, brighter, or students more likely to succeed? Who knows but that's the benefit of open enrollment; you want to go to one school versus another? Just apply.

That said, perhaps FHS will alter its educational program/opportunities when VdLHS opens and there aren't 2,800+ students running around each day and they reduce their current focus on crowd control and discipline.

[keyplayer]

With the research I've done so far on 4x4 block schedule, it is unlikely Vista will out score FHS on the tests. The schedule will allow for more classes over the course of 4 years. Students may or may not cover all of the material in the year in a semester format. The class period is longer but sometimes you just can't cover more concepts in a day and take it all in. It sounds like you have a few years beforeyou need to decide on a high school. You can fill out a choice form for either school when the time comes.
With the awkward placement of the second school ( dictated by what land was available) and the difference in size the bounderies are bound to seem a little strange. There were lots of meetings and the lines moved around alot before the decision was made. There is a lot to consider in trying not to split neighborhoods any more than necessary and keep the potential number of students within the school limits.
On the topic of Sutter, they do have clean up days if you want to volunteer. You should take a look at the inside of the school before you make judgements. There is a lot going on in the classrooms. There are a lot of fences around the school. Most have been there a long time. I can't really imagine the fields without the fences.
David already explained about the Distinguished school process. It is a long application process and is only open every few years. The staff may have had other priorities.

[lisasellshouses]

I don't believe the state (or the feds, in the case of Blue Ribbon schools) just go around and hand out the designation. There is ALOT of work that the principal, staff, and others undertake to apply for distinguished school status and undergo the rigorous evaluation process. It could be that the principal of Sutter Middle School isn't as ambitious or confident as was the principal of Folsom Middle School.

That said, the honors don't necessarily make one school better than another. A school is a community of students, parents, teachers, staff, and administrators -- each affecting the outcome of the student's educational experience. You can't tell me that if I have a child going to Natoma Station Elementary, which has received both the state distinguished school and national blue ribbon designations, s/he is guaranteed an excellent education. Oh yeah, both those designations were received under a prior principal. How does that factor into their value today?
Where are you coming up with this #$%& ? It's a school that will be accredited by WASC just like FHS. Will it have different opportunities? Sure, it would be dumb to have a twin of FHS. Will it produce smarter, brighter, or students more likely to succeed? Who knows but that's the benefit of open enrollment; you want to go to one school versus another? Just apply.

That said, perhaps FHS will alter its educational program/opportunities when VdLHS opens and there aren't 2,800+ students running around each day and they reduce their current focus on crowd control and discipline.

well said.

I have had 2 daughters go thru middle schools in this town. My oldest went to Folsom Middle and my middle daughter will graduate from Sutter this year.

I honestly can not say one was better than the other. I think they both are awesome schools. both have great teachers and administrators.

We moved from Sac city schools to folsom just for schools.

[PageAvenue]

I think that another problem with having two high schools so close to each other, is that it's gonna pick apart the sports and music programs that are finally coming to compare and compete with the top teams in their divisions, such as the basketball and football programs, and especially with the 4th in the nation girl's soccer team. folsom's always been well known for both, and these two schools will just pick apart at the talent, giving us two medium talented ones, instead of nationally known ones.

just my two cents

[john]

I think all Folsom schools are, and will continue to be, excellent schools.

I recently had a conversation with a school teacher who moved here because of the schools here in Folsom. He still works in Sacramento, but he wants his kids here. Because the schools are in better shape? No.

Folsom's schools have always been good because of parent involvement. Parents get involved with their children's education. They go to teacher/parent nights. They care about their kids' grades. The expectation is that they will go to college. Not "if" you will go to college, but "where" you will go to college. When the kids are struggling, they do whatever they can to help out - tutoring, changing their study habits, riding them when necessary. He said he's be lucky to get more than 3 parents in on parent/teacher conference night in Sacramento!

That's what it boils down to. I'm sure we have our fair share of over-involved parents, but parent involvement and good educations go hand in hand. The facilities are important, yes. (Don't get me started on landscaping maintenance at Folsom High)... But in the bigger picture - as parents, it's just as important that we do what we can to help out too. It's up to the kids to study and get good grades. But we must empower them to do so.

[lisasellshouses]

I think that another problem with having two high schools so close to each other, is that it's gonna pick apart the sports and music programs that are finally coming to compare and compete with the top teams in their divisions, such as the basketball and football programs, and especially with the 4th in the nation girl's soccer team. folsom's always been well known for both, and these two schools will just pick apart at the talent, giving us two medium talented ones, instead of nationally known ones.

just my two cents

those are excellent points but we must split up the high schools. 2800 kids at one school is too much....

[Revolutionist]

We live in Natoma Station, and I have 3 daughters at NSE now. My oldest daughter is a high-achieving 8th grader at Sutter and will be starting high school in the fall. We had the ability to chose which school she would attend.

We chose to stay with Folsom High.

There was a certain allure to sending her to a school that would only have 9th and 10th grades in attendance, but in the end we did not feel that the block program had any academic advantage over the traditional program, FHS location was more convenient for us (as we will have students in 3 different schools next year), and we are very happy with the music and other programs that are important to our daughter.

We stay very involved in our children's education (much to their teachers' and principals' chagrin perhaps) and we will make sure our daughter is getting the best education possible at FHS.

However, the OP has brought up a point that I do agree with, and that is the physical condition of Sutter, Sprentz, Judah, etc properties. Its easy to marginalize this issue by saying "the education is what counts, not the buildings". But its not that simple. The condition of the schools has a direct effect on a child's education. Run-down facilities make it more difficult to teach. They make students less-likely to enjoy their school day, and therefore less receptive to instruction, and result in less care and respect of the school grounds by students, leading ever deeper on a downward spiral that affects discipline, morale, and learning.

School condition also sends a message about how important education is to that community, and has a bearing in the quality of teachers we attract to teach our students. Teachers are human too, and if they have a choice between teaching at a nicely cared for, modern, beautiful campus or a rundown, leaky, brown-fielded eyesore, human nature is going to lead them toward the nicer facilities.

These campuses are overdue for facelifts, and in my book one of the top 3 reasons I think it is time we revisit splitting the FCUSD. Beautification days are nice, and do help.. but they only go so far. Real change will only come about if it is a priority at the district level.

Of course, that might lead us to other topics -- such as that thread that will not die... so I had better stop here