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#1 (MaxineR)

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:52 PM

Should a person with no college degree or trade skills, expect to gain economic security by working low paying jobs, hoping that experience will pay off with job advancement and a higher paying job, at some time in the future? Is that even a reasonable idea in today's world?

I’m meeting some people who are very angry that their long steady work record isn’t paying off with higher paying jobs. These are people, most in their thirties and forties, who thought that hard work would eventually lead them into management positions, and higher income levels.

Oddly, they blame the system, or the Republicans....anybody but themselves. We all have to live with the consequences of our decisions. What makes these people think they are not responsible for theirs? What makes them think they deserve our pity?

I don’t understand this sort of thinking. Are there some among us that are thinking this way?
Can those who are, please explain why they think that they should get paid what a person with a four year degree does? You have lead your life as you saw fit and made your choices, so why all the anger at everybody else?

#2 (The Dude)

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:07 PM

I personally don't think having a degree makes a person instantly the best qualified candidate for a job.

If I was to choose between someone with a 4 year degree in whatever who has zero experience, vs a person who has had numerous years of experience in that job but no degree- I'd pick the person with experience over the person with the degree every time.

Many people with degrees feel they are entitled to the best jobs and best pay just because they spent 4 years in college, but that never means they are the best person for the job.

I've met many angry full time students who think they should have the best jobs and salaries handed to them, funny that, they're still in school and not at work....

#3 Carl G

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:17 PM

I work with computers and I always tell younger people to be sure to get a job in the field so when they graduate and look for a job they can point to their experience. When interviewing people I almost always dismiss those with no experience.

#4 old soldier

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:20 PM

wel first of all you have to realize that some folks are smart and some are less smart (dumb is not political correst to say and it hurts self esteem) thes less smat folks may screw thing up when they are given more responsibility

thes folks can be less smart and crafty however at the same time. they have bonded with obama and his gang because they are crafty enough to see that if enough of this type give support they will have to work less cause obama has plans to take lots of money from the smart working folks and give to them

#5 chris v

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:27 PM

I am one those that you speak of that has worked from the bottom up. Never went to college. But, I don't have this attitude that you describe. I am paid well because I am a supervisor and I do my job well. I have learned the skills necessary to be competitive with engineers with college degrees. Do I know everything they know? No, but I more than make up for that with other skills that a college grad doesn't have. I am respected as an engineer in that respect and my portfolio of projects would impress many.

#6 Deb aka Resume Lady

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:23 PM

You can't broad-brush or stereotype people by whether or not they have degrees. I work with a lot of clients who, like some members here, do not have degrees -- but have distinguished themselves in their lines of work and have been promoted to fairly high levels of management. I have worked with clients who have degrees and haven't attained the same success. And I've worked with clients who have busted their butts for their employers, but have been taken advantage of by being under-title and underpaid. There are so many variables that determine someone's economic security and career advancement -- too many to mention here.
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#7 EAH

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:22 PM

I’m meeting some people who are very angry that their long steady work record isn’t paying off with higher paying jobs. These are people, most in their thirties and forties, who thought that hard work would eventually lead them into management positions, and higher income levels.I don’t understand this sort of thinking. Are there some among us that are thinking this way?
Can those who are, please explain why they think that they should get paid what a person with a four year degree does? You have lead your life as you saw fit and made your choices, so why all the anger at everybody else?


Well I believe I am qualified to anwser this question. My parents did not have the financial resources to send me to college. I was on my own and worked full time at 18 years old. I worked VERY hard and within 7 years rose to management and eventually, 3 years later, to a Divisional management position for the company I was working for. I was making very good money, albeit I was on the road traveling every week. I was promoted BECAUSE I was a hard worker and had bottom up knowledge of the company policies, procedures and products. It was my experience and knowledge which made me an integral and productive part of growing the companys' business.
After I got married I quit my job ( too much travelling) and decided to go back to college and complete my coursework. I received my 4 year degree and was on the Deans list every semester. After 20 years of working my butt off full time, college was like a vacation to me.
I can honestly say that NOTHING I learned in college prepared me for any SPECIFIC job. EXPERIENCE IS KEY.
I absolutely do not comprehend how someone could take an attitude that any 4 year degree can hold a candle to years of hard work and loyalty to a company. Hello America ????? Land of opportunity????
And Maxine, lest you think I come from a lower class background that didn't hold education as a priority;
I was raised in Piedmont, Ca.
I am the granddaughter of the first Dean of Mc George University Law School ( and co-founder)
I am the granddaughter of the first president of the Sacramento Junior League.
Oh and I am a DAR and all that bullsh*t.
My father went to Bolt law school at UC Berkeley.
He currently holds a doctorate and ya know what? He wasn't able to hold down a job to save his life. He pissed millions of dollars away in family fortune because he never understood the value of HARD WORK.
[b]But boy oh boy was he educated.


#8 (The Dude)

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:32 PM

That right there is a great example and a great post.

I have no degree but have 20 years experience in my field and I currently make more than most doctors.

#9 2kids4me

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:04 PM

I don't think the people you are referring to are where they are because they don't have a degree - or because they worked hard. I'm guessing they THINK they worked hard, but obviously didn't, or they would have been promoted. I think it's our typical American belief of entitlement.

As for the degree, I think you learn a lot from college, but you learn much more from experience. If it isn't a job that requires a degree (dr, atty, finance, etc), hard work and experience will get you far. If you are a good employee, and have brains, you will get ahead.

#10 mac_convert

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:10 PM

I agree a degree doesn't necessarily prepare you for some jobs, but in 2012 it is a lot harder to get a well paying job without some kind of education. I agree with several posts who claim people with experience in the field without an education are more qualified than someone out of school with just an education may do better in the job but in 2012 a person coming out of high school trying to get the same job as a college graduate will most likely not get picked for the position. College isn't for everyone, but I'm a proponent that believes all adults should have a two year community college degree or certification in technical training.

#11 Steve Heard

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:39 PM

I'm guessing they THINK they worked hard, but obviously didn't, or they would have been promoted. I think it's our typical American belief of entitlement.

OMG, as the young folks say.

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#12 EAH

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:15 AM

I agree a degree doesn't necessarily prepare you for some jobs, but in 2012 it is a lot harder to get a well paying job without some kind of education. I agree with several posts who claim people with experience in the field without an education are more qualified than someone out of school with just an education may do better in the job but in 2012 a person coming out of high school trying to get the same job as a college graduate will most likely not get picked for the position. College isn't for everyone, but I'm a proponent that believes all adults should have a two year community college degree or certification in technical training.



I think that is an obvious given. We are talking about adults who have worked years for a company being passed over for promotions in favor of those who were more fortunate to be able to afford (or more likely their parents were able to afford) a 4 year college degree. Maxine apparently doesn't seem to value a worker no matter how long and hard they have worked for a company if they did not get that piece of paper. The more I go back and read her post the more I think she might be being sarcastic. After all, most of us are raised with the addage that if we work hard in life we will get far. She seems to think hard work and company loyalty are worthless values without a college degree.Obviously I DO value a 4 year degree, as I went back as an adult and got my degree. ( I was accepted into UC Davis with an emphasis in Political Science). I am here to tell you as a semi recent college graduate, most of the young graduates entering the job market are as green as a bad potato. In fact I see Maxine's kind of thinking as a type of discrimination. Unless the company provides some kind of education reimbursment program ( and less and less do these days) how exactly is a single parent raising a family supposed to " make the right decision" to go get a 4 year degree?? I had to quit my job in order to complete my upper grad required classes the last year as most of them were only offered during the day,not night, AND my major included a requirement to do an internship at the Capitol under a Senator. Maxine's attitude towards the hard working poor is very exclusionist to me.

#13 caligirlz

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:17 AM

I think we should let Maxine explain how she feels, IF she wants to, instead of making assumptions by "reading between the lines".

#14 swmr545

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:41 AM

I personally don't think having a degree makes a person instantly the best qualified candidate for a job.

If I was to choose between someone with a 4 year degree in whatever who has zero experience, vs a person who has had numerous years of experience in that job but no degree- I'd pick the person with experience over the person with the degree every time.

Many people with degrees feel they are entitled to the best jobs and best pay just because they spent 4 years in college, but that never means they are the best person for the job.

I've met many angry full time students who think they should have the best jobs and salaries handed to them, funny that, they're still in school and not at work....


And that's why I've been interning for the past 8 years and cultivating relationships with the people that will be in positions to hire me when I graduate next year. So far, things have been paying off in that I finally got a paid internship this past summer that paid more than what some staffers receive as their salary.

I'm going to college because the job I want requires a degree, but I've been willing to put in the hard work along the way to try and get a leg up on those I will be competing against when it's time to get a job.
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#15 (The Dude)

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 10:57 AM

And that's why I've been interning for the past 8 years and cultivating relationships with the people that will be in positions to hire me when I graduate next year. So far, things have been paying off in that I finally got a paid internship this past summer that paid more than what some staffers receive as their salary.

I'm going to college because the job I want requires a degree, but I've been willing to put in the hard work along the way to try and get a leg up on those I will be competing against when it's time to get a job.


Well done dude, that was very smart to gain the experience.




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