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Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting: Newtown, Connecticut

Guns mass shooting

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#16 (The Dude)

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:16 PM

You do know that this also happened today right?


Man slashes 22 children near China school


BEIJING -- A man with a knife slashed 22 children and one adult outside an elementary school in Henan province Friday morning, China's worst such incident in more than a year.
The attack was reminiscent of a spate of knife attacks on schoolchildren that took place across Chinain 2010. In most cases, the attackers were unemployed middle-aged men, leading to speculation that the assaults stemmed from economic and social discontent.

Friday's attack occurred at about 7:40 a.m. as children were arriving outside the gate of Chenpeng Village’s Wanquan Elementary School. The suspect, Min Yingjun, 36, allegedly slashed an elderly woman as well as the children. Local propaganda officials said later that Min had a psychological illness.


The real problem is mental illness


#17 Steve Heard

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:54 PM

While I support the Second Amendment, I would really like a solution that would keep guns out of the crazy's hands.


I just want to scream out of sheer terror and frustration! What can be done to prevent crazies from doing such horrific and crazy things?

From what I read on one report, he was under the required age to purchase a gun. So it was most likely obtained illegally. No gun control law would have stopped that, unless you eradicate all guns in the world. And we know that ain't happening.

We need better crazy control!


Yes, the horse has left the barn. What do we do? I own a pellet gun, but nothing more powerful than that. I do have the desire to own a gun, as the world gets crazier, but it isn't high on my 'to do's'.

I am fully capable and well trained at self-defense, but with so many nuts, gangs, and just plain bad guys out there, I think it won't be long before I find myself at the gun range.

If we want to prevent this type of tragedy, we need to get our heads out of our *sses and stop with the pablum like "Guns don't kill people, people do..." and "All countries have gun violence..." and "the best defense against shooters is if more good people have guns!" The facts prove otherwise.


Yes, the last statement rings truest. Surely, no one would suggest that had those children been allowed to carry guns, they could have prevented the tragedy. Arming everyone is not the answer.

I don't plan on getting into a shoot-out, but I don't want to be in the position of helplessness in the face of danger.

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#18 Carl G

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:41 PM

I just want to scream out of sheer terror and frustration! What can be done to prevent crazies from doing such horrific and crazy things?

I was thinking about that today on the way to lunch. I don't see any reason why any citizen should own armor piercing bullets, armored clothing, or high capacity magazines. That is for the military.

Also, when this type of thing does happen, the person's name should not be published. How many of these crazies do it for the notoriety?

#19 The Average Joe

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:50 PM

... stop with the pablum like "Guns don't kill people, people do..." and "All countries have gun violence..." and "the best defense against shooters is if more good people have guns!" The facts prove otherwise.

Actually, the facts DO prove otherwise. In America, there has been a HUGE increase in gun sales over the past decade, and crime rates have been going down. Britain banned handguns, and handgun related crime went up 89%. Australia also had a gun buyback recently. Since then, murder rates have fallen the same as the US, BUT other violent crime has drastically increased.:

Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:
  • Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
  • During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
  • Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
  • Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
  • At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
  • In 2002 — five years after enacting its gun ban — the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime.
While all that does not allow for other factors (tougher sentencing, etc.) , it is telling. Here is more on how Britain and Aus. far outpace us gun toting Yanks in crime: http://www.telegraph...s-of-crime.html

So YOU stop with the emotional tirade and present some facts that prove your point. Certainly not everyone should own a gun...or a car, or a bottle of whiskey. But facts ARE facts. The FBI doesn't even have "assault rifles" as a category in its crime database because there are so few crimes with them. Of course the media goes batS whenever there is, but the vast majority of crimes are committed with handguns which typically have a limited capacity for bullets.Oh, and btw, both Conn and NJ have capacity limit laws.
Crazy is as crazy does. You want more stringent background checks? I'm game for that. You still won't catch crazy with no history. Some people are just sociopaths with no regard for human life. Whether gang bangers killing hundreds over the course of a year, a lunatic snapping in one huge event, or a methodical serial killer, guns are just a means to an end. More laws will not stop those individuals that would do these types of things. We have a CULTURAL and SOCIETAL problem. Guns are the symptom, not the disease.

For those who hate guns, I ask if you have ever shot any. If so, that is fine, like motorcycles, they are not for everyone. If you have not, but are curious,send me a pm. Usually we fear what we do not know, and I have taken several people out who had never fired a weapon, and I have yet to have somebody dislike it.

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#20 eVader

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:59 PM

Perhaps this is more of a case for mental health than it is for gun control. For whatever reason, this guy had a mental problem and took it out on innocent people. It is truly a sad day. WIth the economy the way it is, people losing their jobs, homes, families and self worth, but I glad we don't see this more often.

There is good gun control and bad. Good gun control is legal, law-abiding citizen practicing proper gun safety and using both hands and hitting the target (range, competition or bad guy). As an NRA supporter I dont want to see limits on these weapons that have minor effect other than restricting good people from having them. Feinstein wants to ban assault rifles based on detachable magazine, collapsible stock, the color of the weapon and other silly characteristics. Criminals don't obey the law hence they are criminals. However there may be smart limits. Remember this guy couldnt have done this in CA with all of our gun laws.... oh right even in super strict gun control states (CA, IL) or regions (DC), bad guys do horrible things with guns, bombs, explosives, cars, poison etc.

If this guy is indeed 20 yrs old, he cannot own a handgun (report says he had a Glock and SIg Sauer) unless he is 21 and passed a DOJ background check. He can own the rifle if 18 and DOJ ok'ed. So some form of gun control existed but didnt prevent this.

The AR rifle he had is a perfectly legitment competition and hunting rifle. It is not a full auto, but semi-fire just like your grandpa's target or hunting rifle. Most likely only allows 10 rds in the magazine (CA requires it)...just like the Ruger Mini-14, an ordinary ranch riflle.

I dont have the solution but this tragedy should invoke serious thought to solving the issue and protecting everyone especially children vs. grandstanding politicians passing trivial ineffective laws.

#21 camay2327

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:39 PM

The thing here is that the two hand guns belonged to his mother. They
were not his. Not sure about the rifle...
A VETERAN Whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount "up to and including their life". That is HONOR, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -Author unknown-

#22 4thgenFolsomite

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:52 PM

reports are the shooter was autistic and had a strained relationship with the mother. he shot her in the face, which is pretty personal. he planned it and had a dispassion for or disconnect with other people. but he knew enough to kill himself, so he wasn't completely disconnected. all the guns belonged to the mother, or at least she bough them, possibly for him as a gift, who knows. senseless incomprehensible tragedy.

what I don't understand though is that the school had an automatic locked door policy 30 minutes after school started. No one in or out unless you were admitted by someone who knew you. This young man reportedly just walked in. Was he just under the time limit before lock down? Surely no one would have let him in if they saw he was carrying guns.
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#23 bordercolliefan

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:11 PM

How do people explain why our country has vastly more mass shooting events than any other country?

The U.S. has had 61 such events since 1982. Furthermore, the frequency has ramped up, with 24 of these incidents occuring since 2006. http://www.motherjon...tigation?page=1

No other country comes close. Is it just a coincidence that we are also the most heavily armed country in the world, and that the number of guns per capita has increased in tandem with the number of mass shootings?

If our greater numbers of guns are not the answer, then what is? Does America have that many more mentally ill people than other countries? That would certainly be a sad distinction for our nation to have. At least the problem of "too many guns" is fixable.

#24 4thgenFolsomite

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:30 PM

Why did the mother of a 20-year-old young autistic man who had violent outbursts and was hard to control keep these guns in the house she shared with him? That makes no sense to me.
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#25 Carl G

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:37 AM

Why did the mother of a 20-year-old young autistic man who had violent outbursts and was hard to control keep these guns in the house she shared with him? That makes no sense to me.

Maybe she enjoy going out to the range and letting off some steam. What I don't understand is any person who doesn't keep their firearms in a safe with trigger locks.

#26 (The Dude)

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:57 AM

Why do you libs constantly blame inanimate objects instead of blaming the shooter???

#27 4thgenFolsomite

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:11 AM

He had Aspergers, which is usually diagnosed by a lack of empathy with other people and the inability to recognize other emotional cues, so he is disconnected to other people. He had violent outbursts and tantrums that made it difficult to control him. His friends described him as a "gamer," which I assume means he played lots of video games (most of which involve shooting people). While I could see his mom enjoying fire arms for her own use, she is described by everyone as a teacher and I doubt she would have bought a bushmaster for relaxation. This makes me think the kid wanted it and she bought it for him. She had also had to quit working at the school because he needed more attention and she had to stay home with him. There is no way, in her place, that I would have had guns in the home with him. Denial is a hell of a drug.
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#28 Chad Vander Veen

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:32 AM

It's not video games or movies or anything else causing these massacres. All of these recent slaughters have one thing in common besides guns - a mentally ill person committing these atrocities. Perhaps the real issue we need to address is what to do with those suffering from mental illness. A sensible start, in my opinion, would be requiring mental health evaluations for all weapon purchases.

#29 4thgenFolsomite

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:12 AM

It's not video games or movies or anything else causing these massacres. All of these recent slaughters have one thing in common besides guns - a mentally ill person committing these atrocities. Perhaps the real issue we need to address is what to do with those suffering from mental illness. A sensible start, in my opinion, would be requiring mental health evaluations for all weapon purchases.


the mother bought the weapons. I mention the video games because he liked to play them, which means he modeled shooting, spent hours imagining that he was doing that and living that as a reality in his twisted mind. for a normal kid, no problem, but this guy had aspergers, a personality disorder that makes him disassociate with other humans. He had no empathy. so when you combine a kid with violent outbursts and tantrums with someone who practices shooting people for fun, and doesn't really see other humans as people, you have someone who is a time bomb. you don't give timebombs guns. mom should have known better. there should not have been guns in that household.
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#30 cw68

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:15 AM

the mother bought the weapons. I mention the video games because he liked to play them, which means he modeled shooting, spent hours imagining that he was doing that and living that as a reality in his twisted mind. for a normal kid, no problem, but this guy had aspergers, a personality disorder that makes him disassociate with other humans. He had no empathy. so when you combine a kid with violent outbursts and tantrums with someone who practices shooting people for fun, and doesn't really see other humans as people, you have someone who is a time bomb. you don't give timebombs guns. mom should have known better. there should not have been guns in that household.

Smartest thing said yet, IMHO.





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