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Did The Kings Get Screwed In 2002?


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#31 Chad Vander Veen

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 10:21 AM

QUOTE(Robert Giacometti @ Jun 11 2008, 10:47 AM) View Post
Maybe all of you who feel the Kings got screwed could share your experience of playing and understanding of the rules of basketball?

I'll start, I've been playing for about 40 years, have coached for about 25 years for hundreds of games, been asked to scout teams, assisted at basketball camps, have been to a number of referee clinics, assisited with training at referee clinics and refereed litereally hundreds of games. I was also the President of a basketball league.

I'm going to go out on a limb and claim I think I'm qualified to make an honest assessment of a referee's preformance during a game.

Its pretty common knowledge amongst those who understand the game that teams who play aggressively on offense...i.e. that take the ball to hole instead of taking jump shots or fade away shots will get fouled more often and will shoot more free throws. During the game in question, the Lakers were clearly more aggressive in taking the ball to the hole and in getting the ball into Shaq in the paint. Anyone with any knowledge of the game would understand that the Lakers would get fouled more than the Kings and shoot more free throws.

John, referenced a play where Bibby got elbowed in the mouth. If he is describing the play where the Lakers were inbounding the basketball under their own basket. The facts are Bibby did NOT have position as Kobe was attempting to break around him. Clearly you can see where Bibby is sliding his right foot and then leaning his body to the right to try and block Kobe from breaking. This was a very easy call for the Refs to make and the correct call. I'm confident 90% of the NBA refes would agree.

Maybe ESPN will replay the game and review some of the questionable calls with retired Refs and explain to the fans why the call was correct or not. If so you will see by and large the game was called fairly and the Lakers beat the Kings as they were the more aggressive team.

This is a common trait amongst champions

Those of you who want to believe a convicted criminal who was betting on games over facts, I can't probably help you.

BTW, I HATE the Lakers and am a Kings fan.


No offense, RG, but Michael Wilbon - a sports columnist for the Washington Post - disagrees with you.
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#32 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 11:01 AM

QUOTE(davburr @ Jun 11 2008, 10:28 AM) View Post
no way! seriously? he did not get called for deliberately smacking his elbow in Bibby's face like that? unbelievable...

maybe they should allow fighting in the NBA like they do in hockey, that way the kings can get some payback time heh


From the angle we are looking at you actually can't see Kobe's elbow hiting Bibby. You can see Kobe raisng his arm to run by Bibby and you can see Bibby's head going back. Referees are trained to only call fouls on things they actually see, not what they think happened. What you do see is Bibby not having position and tackling Kobe as he comes by.

If the REfs don't see the actual contact they can't call a foul. Many people don't understand that concept.

Maybe there is another shot from another angle that would really show what happened and maybe the others Refs saw it?

Maybe the Kings reputation for flopping came back to haunt them?

#33 Darth Lefty

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 12:00 PM

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#34 ChipShot

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 06:57 PM

They probably did get screwed. And the overall point is ?????
I have opinions, you have opinions. We'll just call it even...is that OK ??

#35 iJason

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 11:03 PM

QUOTE(Robert Giacometti @ Jun 11 2008, 10:47 AM) View Post
John, referenced a play where Bibby got elbowed in the mouth. If he is describing the play where the Lakers were inbounding the basketball under their own basket. The facts are Bibby did NOT have position as Kobe was attempting to break around him. Clearly you can see where Bibby is sliding his right foot and then leaning his body to the right to try and block Kobe from breaking. This was a very easy call for the Refs to make and the correct call. I'm confident 90% of the NBA refes would agree.

Alright, I've been in referee classes. Here's my take on it, you can clearly see Kobe using his arms to PUSH off Bibby. He's using the swim move to get by, which is illegal so it doesn't matter if Bibby is moving. I look at this like a charge/block foul, the defender can be moving, as long as they have better position and the aggressor is initiating the contact. Kobe is initiating the contact even before Bibby begins to move, making it a foul on Kobe.

I think what frustrates me the most is how David Stern just blows everything off like nothing wrong happened. There's no way a team should be on pace to shoot 108 free throws in a game. Ridiculous.

#36 Steve Heard

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 08:18 AM

QUOTE(ChipShot @ Jun 11 2008, 07:57 PM) View Post
They probably did get screwed. And the overall point is ?????

That the league fixes games.

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#37 ChipShot

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 08:57 AM

QUOTE(stevethedad @ Jun 12 2008, 09:18 AM) View Post
That the league fixes games.

Which I've suspected for many, many years.

Is everyone fairly new to that revelation ??

basketball.gif basketball.gif basketball.gif basketball.gif basketball.gif
I have opinions, you have opinions. We'll just call it even...is that OK ??

#38 Dave Burrell

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 09:03 AM

QUOTE(ChipShot @ Jun 12 2008, 09:57 AM) View Post
Which I've suspected for many, many years.

Is everyone fairly new to that revelation ??

basketball.gif basketball.gif basketball.gif basketball.gif basketball.gif



it becomes more then just a suspicion when officials come out and candidly tell of the corruption in the league

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#39 ChipShot

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 09:09 AM

But many people, including the media, are acting surprised.

That's what surprises me....
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#40 4thgenFolsomite

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 11:31 AM

the Kings coach was the one who got screwed. Rick Adleman? Wasn't that his name? he could tell it wasn't fair that night. all those years working on that team to bring it to its peak, bibby, vladi, etc., and he gets them right to the brink only to have that happen. that is so unfair.

we totally lost interest in the kings after that. key players started leaving. it just wasn't the same.
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#41 camay2327

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 01:16 PM

Yes, they got screwed.. OK, live with it. A lot of people get screwed during their lifetime.

Go JOHN McCAIN
A VETERAN Whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount "up to and including their life". That is HONOR, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -Author unknown-

#42 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 01:21 PM

QUOTE(iJason @ Jun 12 2008, 12:03 AM) View Post
Alright, I've been in referee classes. Here's my take on it, you can clearly see Kobe using his arms to PUSH off Bibby. He's using the swim move to get by, which is illegal so it doesn't matter if Bibby is moving. I look at this like a charge/block foul, the defender can be moving, as long as they have better position and the aggressor is initiating the contact. Kobe is initiating the contact even before Bibby begins to move, making it a foul on Kobe.

I think what frustrates me the most is how David Stern just blows everything off like nothing wrong happened. There's no way a team should be on pace to shoot 108 free throws in a game. Ridiculous.


Where in the rules does it say the swim move is illegal?

If the Kings committed 54 fouls then they should be called for 54 fouls. There isn't cap on the number of fouls a team can have.

As a referee you call the game based upon what you see, nothing else.

#43 Chad Vander Veen

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 01:32 PM

QUOTE(Robert Giacometti @ Jun 12 2008, 02:21 PM) View Post
Where in the rules does it say the swim move is illegal?

If the Kings committed 54 fouls then they should be called for 54 fouls. There isn't cap on the number of fouls a team can have.

As a referee you call the game based upon what you see, nothing else.


That sounds like crooked-referee talk.

#44 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 01:39 PM

QUOTE(cw68 @ Jun 11 2008, 09:21 AM) View Post
I think someone who admitted to fixing games might just actually know about games that were fixed. He's got more of an inside track that you or I do.

Methinks he's not going to be the only one talking about his game. If it's the truth, it'll come out. IMO that process is just starting now.


He was betting on games where he was the official.

If others were involved why isn't he naming names?

If he knew so much about which games were being fixed, how did manage to loose so much betting on these games?

The FBI and Justice department both have conducted investigations and can't coroborate anything he is saying. Are they part of the coverup as well?

Over the years, the NBA has fired a number of officials, yet NONE of them are confirming anything this convicted felon is claiming, Why?

Just because people feel NBA games are fixed doesn't give this convicted felon any credibilty for what he is saying. He isn't saying anything specific but rather is speaking in inuendos and people are lapping it up as accurate despite no facts.

He will soon face sentencing and if he can drag the NBA down to his level, maybe he will get a lighter sentence

#45 cw68

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 01:42 PM

Robert, can you just agree to disagree with me? We see it differently. Period.




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