Jump to content






Photo
- - - - -

Accident On East Bidwell


  • Please log in to reply
252 replies to this topic

#241 Bill Z

Bill Z

    Hopeless Addict

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,795 posts
  • Location:Briggs Ranch

Posted 01 June 2010 - 09:04 AM

QUOTE (stacycam @ Jun 1 2010, 08:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes
Back to the point, that woman CHOSE to drink and take drugs while driving her CHILDREN. Sorry, she made that decision and she should pay - dearly. I'm so sick of our society letting people off the hook when they do something wrong.

Go back and read all of my posts on this topic. I have stated numerous times, I think she deserves to be sentenced for the crimes she is guilty of. I hope she gets many years behind bars. But I abhor statements that imply something I believe to be a gross misrepresentation of reality. I really really doubt she meant any harm to come to her children. I've virtually positive she did not wish her son to end up with brain damage. so I maintain my objection to the statement in the newspaper that says she willfully caused harm to her child. I have no problems with statements that she willfully broke laws, and through gross negligence put herself, her children, and others on the road in harms way, but she didn't willfully cause the harm she created.

here are two definitions of willfull from legal websites

willful - Referring to acts which are intentional, conscious and directed toward achieving a purpose.
outlawlegalservices.com/legal-definitions.html

A willful act is one done intentionally as distinguished from an act done carelessly or inadvertently.
www.wisbar.org/AM/Template.cfm

The harm to her child was not willfull. The crime of driving under the influence was.
That's the distinction I stand by.
I would rather be Backpacking


#242 legofamily

legofamily

    Superstar

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 508 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Folsom
  • Interests:Reading
    Hiking
    Photography
    Sports
    Science

Posted 01 June 2010 - 09:07 AM

QUOTE (wreathlady @ Jun 1 2010, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wow, that is insane. I am so sorry for your freinds daughter. That makes me sick. 20 DUI's seems so out of control. How does one get out of not being imprisoned for that? Makes no sense to me. I hope this person is in jail for a long time now. If it were me, I would have to take matters into my own hands, as it seems our judicial system is not doing what it is supposed to.



Thanks wreathlady. I appreciate your concern and I am sure my friends would too. It has been really hard for them. I feel for them every day.


It doesn't make sense to me either. I am not sure if all the DUIs were in California, but I think one offense is too many. The trial just ended and he was found guilty on all accounts. I don't know what the sentencing was, but he could get life in prison and I hope he does. Although that still seems to lenient to me.

#243 Deb aka Resume Lady

Deb aka Resume Lady

    Hopeless Addict

  • No Politics!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,361 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Folsom
  • Interests:Sole proprietor: Tailored Resume Services
    Volunteer: Court Appointed Special Advocate for a child in the foster care system

Posted 01 June 2010 - 09:08 AM

The harm to her child was not willfull. The crime of driving under the influence was.
That's the distinction I stand by.


I understand and agree with your point.
Job Search Consultant
Tailored Resume Services
(916) 984-0855

Volunteer, Court Appointed Special Advocate for Sacramento CASA * I Am for the Child
Making a Difference in the Life of Abused and Neglected Children in Foster Care
http://www.sacramentocasa.org/

I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do. ~ Edward Everett Hale

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~ Anne Frank

#244 bordercolliefan

bordercolliefan

    Hopeless Addict

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,596 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Natoma Station

Posted 01 June 2010 - 09:20 AM

Totally agree with Bill Z's logic.

Interestingly, for punitive damages purposes (which could be different than the criminal law definition), the law speaks of a "willful and conscious disregard of the rights or safety of others."

So, it is not necessary that the person intended the harm that resulted. It is just necessary that they acted with a willful disregard of the harms that might ensue.

This lady clearly did the latter.

I don't know what the right punishment is. It's possible that having to look at and care for her brain-damaged son every day will be more punishment to her than jail time would be. The guilt has to be overwhelming.

#245 stacycam

stacycam

    blah blah blah

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,154 posts
  • Location:Folsom

Posted 01 June 2010 - 10:11 AM

QUOTE (bordercolliefan @ Jun 1 2010, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's possible that having to look at and care for her brain-damaged son every day will be more punishment to her than jail time would be. The guilt has to be overwhelming.

Someone who has to drink and take drugs to handle daily life certainly couldn't handle caring for a brain-damaged child. That kid deserves better - as do her other children.

I get your point Bill, but I still think our society gives people too many excuses for doing the wrong thing. She knew by driving intoxicated that she was putting her kids, and others, at risk. To me, it's the same as the fact that I eat too much food, therefore I'm fat. Do I eat intending to be fat? No! But, that is the direct cause. Should I say that I know eating too much food makes you gain weight, but I didn't mean to gain weight? I only meant to eat a lot of food. Or maybe better would be to say that I don't fit into my clothes anymore. Well, yes, I ate a ton of food, but I didn't willfully outgrow my clothing. Well, duh! Of course if you eat too much, you will get fat, and you will not fit into your clothes. Well, duh! You drink and take narcotics, then you drive a car with three little kids, you will eventually crash your car.

It is time people start taking full responsibility for their actions. I know it sucks, but that's freakin life.

#246 ducky

ducky

    untitled

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,115 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 01 June 2010 - 10:29 AM

I don't know. I still think Bill Z is mistaking willful intent with deliberate intent (malice aforethought). The latter would come into play if a parent was deliberately trying to commit suicide by crashing the car with his or her children in it. I'm not saying that's what happened, but I also can't say I "virtually" know it didn't. I'm not a mindreader.

#247 knittychick

knittychick

    Superstar

  • No Politics!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 640 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Broadstone

Posted 01 June 2010 - 11:52 AM

If you die of a heart attack due to obesity was your intent to kill yourself? You knew it was one of many possible outcomes of overeating. I agree w/Bill on this one – in my opinion there should be a very long jail sentence in the driver's future. However, as Bill mentioned earlier I believe there is a difference between this woman’s intent and the intent of someone like Melissa Huckaby.
"Peace is always beautiful." - Walt Whitman

#248 wreathlady

wreathlady

    All Star

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 258 posts

Posted 01 June 2010 - 12:52 PM

QUOTE (legofamily @ Jun 1 2010, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks wreathlady. I appreciate your concern and I am sure my friends would too. It has been really hard for them. I feel for them every day.


It doesn't make sense to me either. I am not sure if all the DUIs were in California, but I think one offense is too many. The trial just ended and he was found guilty on all accounts. I don't know what the sentencing was, but he could get life in prison and I hope he does. Although that still seems to lenient to me.



Any prison time is too good for the jerk. Having worked at a State Facility, it is a joke and they have it easy in prison. He should have got the death penalty with that many DUI's. That still boggles my mind. I could not even imagine the pain.

#249 wreathlady

wreathlady

    All Star

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 258 posts

Posted 01 June 2010 - 12:56 PM

QUOTE (bordercolliefan @ Jun 1 2010, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Totally agree with Bill Z's logic.

Interestingly, for punitive damages purposes (which could be different than the criminal law definition), the law speaks of a "willful and conscious disregard of the rights or safety of others."

So, it is not necessary that the person intended the harm that resulted. It is just necessary that they acted with a willful disregard of the harms that might ensue.

This lady clearly did the latter.

I don't know what the right punishment is. It's possible that having to look at and care for her brain-damaged son every day will be more punishment to her than jail time would be. The guilt has to be overwhelming.


If she is even in her right mind. It will be interesting to see how this turns out. All I know is her poor child.

#250 Bill Z

Bill Z

    Hopeless Addict

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,795 posts
  • Location:Briggs Ranch

Posted 01 June 2010 - 02:55 PM

QUOTE (ducky @ Jun 1 2010, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't know. I still think Bill Z is mistaking willful intent with deliberate intent (malice aforethought). The latter would come into play if a parent was deliberately trying to commit suicide by crashing the car with his or her children in it. I'm not saying that's what happened, but I also can't say I "virtually" know it didn't. I'm not a mindreader.

No, go reread the legal definitions of willfull, I think it is pretty clear.
I would rather be Backpacking


#251 ducky

ducky

    untitled

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,115 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 01 June 2010 - 05:08 PM

QUOTE (Bill Z @ Jun 1 2010, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, go reread the legal definitions of willfull, I think it is pretty clear.


Sorry. Still disagree.

Saying she had willful intent is not the same as the Melissa Huckaby example you gave. Melissa Huckaby had malicious intent.

Can we agree on criminal negligence?

People v. Odom (1991) 226 Cal.App.3d 1028. ("["Criminal negligence" refers to negligent conduct which is aggravated, reckless or flagrant and which is such a departure from the conduct of an ordinarily prudent, careful person under the same circumstances as to be contrary to a proper regard for [human life] [danger to human life] or to constitute indifference to the consequences of that conduct. The facts must be such that the consequences of the negligent conduct could reasonable have been foreseen and it must appear that the [death] [danger to human life] was not the result of inattention, mistaken judgment or misadventure but the natural and probable result of aggravated, reckless or flagrantly negligent conduct.]")

#252 Bill Z

Bill Z

    Hopeless Addict

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,795 posts
  • Location:Briggs Ranch

Posted 01 June 2010 - 05:14 PM

QUOTE (ducky @ Jun 1 2010, 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry. Still disagree.

Saying she had willful intent is not the same as the Melissa Huckaby example you gave. Melissa Huckaby had malicious intent.

Can we agree on criminal negligence?

People v. Odom (1991) 226 Cal.App.3d 1028. ("["Criminal negligence" refers to negligent conduct which is aggravated, reckless or flagrant and which is such a departure from the conduct of an ordinarily prudent, careful person under the same circumstances as to be contrary to a proper regard for [human life] [danger to human life] or to constitute indifference to the consequences of that conduct. The facts must be such that the consequences of the negligent conduct could reasonable have been foreseen and it must appear that the [death] [danger to human life] was not the result of inattention, mistaken judgment or misadventure but the natural and probable result of aggravated, reckless or flagrantly negligent conduct.]")

Yes, I can agree to she willfully committed criminal negligence. I had stated more than once she committed gross negligence. reread the defintions again. she didn't willfully cause harm to her child. she willfully engaged in dangerous behavior that led to the accident that caused the harm to the child, but she didn't willfully harm her child.

I would rather be Backpacking


#253 supermom

supermom

    Supermom

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,225 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 01 June 2010 - 09:05 PM

Did she graduate high school, in ca?

Where it is mandatory to watch red pavement?

Did she have a driverslicense-and take a test where she had to sign-stating that drinking alcochol and driving is an unsafe act? And against the law?

Hmmm-see-its not negligence if its not due to ignorance of the law. It is willful.
Its not an accident or oops I didn't mean to- if legally you have been warned it is against the law. That makes it crimminal.

This was a felonious act of willful attempt to commit manslaughter.

Period.

She should be shot while being hanged until her toe nails separate from her toes.

Period.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users