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#1 Cloud9

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 09:05 PM

Hi All,

We're thinking of purchasing a family sedan or SUV from the following 2004 selections:

Lexus RX330
Lexus ES330
Acura TL
Honda Accord EX-L
Toyota Camry XLE
Toyota Highlander Limited

This is the short list after reading through Consumer Reports and researching numerous vehicles. We're aware of the recent JD Powers study naming Lexus/Toyota #1 in dependability with Honda #2, and we're also aware of current auto recalls. We prefer if you could describe your ownership experiences.

The variables (in no specific order) are safety, reliability, fuel economy, comfort, price, and performance (only looking at v6 models). We have 2 two kids and are likely to keep the vehicle for about 10yrs (our current track record).

I've taken all of these vehicles for a test drive and they all have their pluses and minuses. My wife has test driven a couple of the cars and doesn't have a preference among this set of vehicles.

For those of you that own, have owned, or are otherwise familiar with any of these models in recent years (2001 to the present), we'd like to hear your thoughts, comments.

Much appreciated. Thanks.
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#2 cybertrano

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 09:12 PM

I have toyota and honda car/truck, but not the models you described. However, I love my toyota truck. It's over 100,000 miles without any problems. specool.gif specool.gif specool.gif specool.gif

Because of my experience with Toyota, I am currently looking at a Lexus SUV Model. specool.gif specool.gif specool.gif

#3 john

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 09:19 PM

We have a 2001 Tacoma 4-door and LOVE IT. Best vehicle we've ever had, we would not change a thing had we the opportunity to do it over.


#4 Cloud9

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 09:49 PM

Cyber,

How has the Honda worked out for you? I found the Acura and Accord to be firmer rides than the Lexus ES/RX and Camry/Highlander, but the cars were also more responsive when you hit the gas....




"The important thing is not to stop questioning'' | "Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-- Albert Einstein--

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#5 Hilscher1

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 11:09 PM

What about a 3 series BMW i have a 99 and i love it. It runs great has had very few problems ( just some stuff with the AC but im told its common with my year). The car handles like a dream. Sadly im gonna have to get ride of it soon though. Gotta get something bigger now that we have a baby smile.gif. I dont know how stuck you are on a new car but i bought mine certified used from bmw and it really low mileage and the warranty is good for 100,000 miles. so you could buy a 2002 with 20000 miles on it and it would be covered to 100000. I think lexus has the same things now also.

#6 BodenMaddox

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 01:29 PM

I own TWO Highlanders (both 2002). Very, very good vehicle. Low maintenance, nice comforts, nice power and handling. Keep in mind that the Lexus RX and the Highlander are the same vehicle (just slightly different bodies), so you get the same thing except some additional luxuries for a lot more money with the Lexus.



#7 Cloud9

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 02:27 PM

QUOTE (Hilscher1 @ Jul 2 2004, 11:09 PM)
What about a 3 series BMW i have a 99 and i love it. It runs great has had very few problems ( just some stuff with the AC but im told its common with my year). The car handles like a dream. Sadly im gonna have to get ride of it soon though. Gotta get something bigger now that we have a baby smile.gif. I dont know how stuck you are on a new car but i bought mine certified used from bmw and it really low mileage and the warranty is good for 100,000 miles. so you could buy a 2002 with 20000 miles on it and it would be covered to 100000. I think lexus has the same things now also.

Hilscher,

The BMW 3series falls short in our reliability requirements and crash-test results (Consumer Reports Used Car Yearbook 1996-2003 models) and we have 2 small kids to think about as well.... biggrin.gif

But yes, a used car (from the options above and right year are options for us). We have narrowed our list to:

Honda Accord EX V6
Lexus ES330
Toyota Highlander Limited and
Lexus RX330


"The important thing is not to stop questioning'' | "Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-- Albert Einstein--

http://folsomforum.com/

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#8 Cloud9

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 02:48 PM

QUOTE (BodenMaddox @ Jul 3 2004, 01:29 PM)
I own TWO Highlanders (both 2002). Very, very good vehicle. Low maintenance, nice comforts, nice power and handling. Keep in mind that the Lexus RX and the Highlander are the same vehicle (just slightly different bodies), so you get the same thing except some additional luxuries for a lot more money with the Lexus.

Boden,

Yes, we're aware that it's basically the same vehicle. We did a side by side comparison on www.autobytel.com and www.nada.com

1 mpg difference on fuel economy.
Longer Warranty
Less seating capacity on the RX330
slightly more legroom in the RX330
slightly better leather in the RX330
Mark Levinson audio
Wood trim
higher driver side safety rating and child safety (finger/hand jam) features for windows & rear door
and a $12k difference.....

My wife and I test drove both vehicles, and while we both like the RX330, we also like the Highlander. We asked ourselves if it was only a $5-6k difference would we lean more towards the RX330? And it was an interesting response. If the Highlander cost $40-41k and the RX $46k we might have been inclined to go with the RX, but at a $12k difference we couldn't justify for the differences noted above (if the safety rating was higher for driver and passenger then maybe that would make a sufficient difference for us to throw on the added $12k)

I keep thinking that we're missing something though......

Is there anyone our there that owns an '01-'04 RX300/330 that can comment on added advantages vs. the Highlander?


"The important thing is not to stop questioning'' | "Imagination is more important than knowledge"
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#9 Julio

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 10:52 PM

Lightly-used 2003 Lamborghini, Murcielago.
Slight fire damage.
Needs new paint job, etc.

Low Reserve! Bid Now!


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#10 TheCourtJester

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 11:42 PM

I'd go for the Toyota....same as the Lexus, but cheaper...and easier (and cheaper) to get maintenance/repairs, even for cosmetic-type stuff (keep in mind,, you have kids and accidents DO happen, a Lexus is WAY to expensive to get those small repairs and stuff). Let's say you have to get it re-upholstered, the slightly "nicer" Lexus leather will cost an INCREDIBLE amount more than teh Highlander's would....same with a window replacement; Lexus has all their windows and things custom-done and fit and all that jazz so it costs a FORTUNE to replace....same goes with basically every other part when comparing the cars...

Don't go for a BMW...the maintenance costs in teh long run will rape your wallet (for lack of a better way of putting it).

And the Honda....screw Honda....The Toyota has just as good reliability and a better resale value...





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#11 Hilscher1

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 10:01 AM

All costs aside, every car your considering is a very good if not excellent car. Just go with one that makes you happy if you have to pay a few thousand extra or what not a car is a huge investment where reliablility, safety, maintenence, service and just how you enjoy driving it should all be considered. I dont think you have much of a chance of a bad car from the group.

#12 Cloud9

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 10:49 AM

QUOTE (TheCourtJester @ Jul 3 2004, 11:42 PM)
And the Honda....screw Honda....The Toyota has just as good reliability and a better resale value...

Actually, Toyota doesn't have just as good reliability - it's more reliable/dependable than the Honda, but interestingly enough, the Honda 5yr resale value is slightly higher at 40% vs. 37% for the Highlander.

We're currently working on getting quotes for all 3 of the finalists and it'll come down to which has the best price/performance overall value.

And yes, we're very aware of the higher repairs costs for the Lexus. We'll also be comparing to pre-owned/used '03 models since the first and second years are the highest depreciation rates for vehicles while 5yr resale value remains same. This would allow us to own the vehicle for 3yrs and see what kind of problems we encounter. If few to none, then we'd keep the vehicle for 10+ yrs.

Our current (and only) vehicle is 11yrs old going on 12 so I may be doing this again in 5yrs or so even if we kept the vehicle we purchase.

Anyway, we're doing to 3 now.... in no particular order:

Honda Accord EX v6 w/Leather/Nav/XM/side curtain airbags
Lexus ES330 v6 w/Nav package
Toyota Highlander Limited v6

If the Accord EX was built in Japan and didn't have as many recalls as it currently does we might have already selected it over the Lexus ES330 since we do have kids as you pointed out.

All things considered the Highlander currently has the edge, but we'll see when we receive all the quotes and do the math.


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-- Albert Einstein--

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#13 Cloud9

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 08:36 AM

For those that might have been curious...

And the winner is...

Honda Accord Sedan EX V6

We found it had the best overall value (price intersecting safety, maintenance, fuel economy, etc...) even exceeding "Near Luxury or Entry Luxury" vehicles as the Acura TL and Lexus ES330. Yes, yes, we've heard it before, "You're comparing apples to oranges" - - Bull- - You can take apart all of the elements of the luxury vehicles by comparing fully loaded vehicles and then estimating the price on the "differentiators".

It just didn't add up for us. It may for some, but we suspect that for most they just don't go through the trouble.

Here are some highlights of the 2004 Honda Accord Sedan

"Best Overall Value of the Year, Midsize over $21,000" - IntelliChoice
Among the Best for Highest Retained Value
Among the Best for Lowest Depreciation
Among the Best for Lowest Fuel Costs in Its Class
Among the Best for Lowest Maintenance
Among the Best for Lowest Ownership Costs

For those of you researching new cars here are some good links:

IntelliChoice
Cars
CarsDirectKelley Blue Book
NADA
AutobytelAutovantage
Invoice Dealers


For maintenance and ownership costs (Total Cost of Ownership)

IntelliChoice

For safety and crash test results

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
Insurance Institute for Highway Safety

For Fuel Economy / Emissions

Environmental Protection Agency
Ames Award

For those of you that are considering a Honda make/model, you should be aware that there are several recalls ongoing - the latest being related to the fluid level in the transmission. So be sure to have the dealer service the vehicle to bring it up to date on any existing recalls.

Now is a good time to pick up a Honda as it's towards the end of 2004 model year and their current automobile inventory levels are high so you should be able to get a good deal on the vehicle.

Hope this helps some of you. Happy shopping! biggrin.gif


"The important thing is not to stop questioning'' | "Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-- Albert Einstein--

http://folsomforum.com/

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#14 Terry

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 08:51 AM

Just so you know:

Lexus is the luxury division of Toyota Corporation.

Acura is the luxury division of Honda Corporation.

They want a piece of ALL the action. And I'm a Lexus fan - they are beautiful, reliable vehicles, someday I'll have enough money to own one!

#15 Julio

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 11:50 AM

QUOTE (TheCourtJester @ Jul 3 2004, 11:42 PM)
Don't go for a BMW...the maintenance costs in teh long run will rape your wallet (for lack of a better way of putting it).

Yes, but a BMW is sooooooo tempting...

V-10 507hp...
Yes, it's a family sedan...

Lots of pics (Also see Page 1)

Exploded view of 2004 BMW M5 V10 engine


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