52 replies to this topic

[Lisa in Folsom]

A friend of mine just got their PG & E bill (they live in El Dorado Hills). $900. Seriously. $900. I played with the numbers and figured that we would have paid $350 for the same usage. Same situation, living in Folsom, I would have paid $550 less. That is HUGE!!!!

[stacycam]

That is precisely why we didn't more to EDH.

[4thgenFolsomite]

yes, when PG&E had to sell off some of their system components, their cost of acquiring electricity went up. they used to own everything. now they have to add purchased power to their grid to keep our lights on. SMUD doesn't have to do that. However, keep in mind that SMUD just got a pretty big rate hike approved, so our rates are going to go up too. Especially as their power demand grows without them building sufficient generation equipment, which means they will have to purchase power too. This is especially true if winter percipitation levels are below normal because it means they can't run their hydroelectric plants as long as they used to. Hydro is pretty cheap; other fuel-based generation not so much.

[EDH Jen]

They need to figure out what's going on with their usage. Ours is usually $100-$125, for just-under 3000 sq ft house, no pool.

[stacycam]

One time my PG&E bill seemed high, so I called them and they walked through my account to see where my usage might seem atypical.

I agree that something is off. I know EDH is higher, but that's extreme.

[AMETHYST PRODUCTIVITY]

$350 is still a lot for Folsom, you must have a pool. Yup, the utilities were a HUGE factor in not moving to EDH. Besides which, we love Folsom.

[JLS]

We moved out of our house in Serrano (3600 sq ft) 6 months ago. Our bill in the summer was 600, 700, 900, 1100. We didn't know what to do. We just kept using the AC less and less but our bill was going up more and more! Even as it cooled down out our bill wasn't going down. Finally we found how to track it. We turned off EVERYTHING in the house that we could and went outside to watch the dial spinning on our meter. We started with turning on the AC to find how fast it was spinning the dial. It was pretty fast. We continued with everything in the house and couldn't find anything worse then it. We decided to double check our Dryer situation that we believed was gas. Turned out it was electric and when we turned that on the dial on the meter sped up insane! We use our dryer alot these days with 2 babies and we are lazy and use it to de-wrinkle our clothes.

Double check the dryer and double check that the AC is functioning properly. Good airflow coming out of the vents and its not froze up or anything. I'll bet its the dryer though...

Still, we've never been able to get below $250/month for PG E. Even in apartments. Our house now with smud has been $200 for the last 3 full billing months of living here (house is only 1600 though). Thats also with an electric dryer but its alot newer and doesn't seem to spin that dial anywhere near as much...

We will move back to EDH after this house but I'm not looking forward to PG E again. They are soooooo much higher priced then smud. They will even tell you that themselves.

[Lisa in Folsom]

yes, when PG&E had to sell off some of their system components, their cost of acquiring electricity went up. they used to own everything. now they have to add purchased power to their grid to keep our lights on. SMUD doesn't have to do that. However, keep in mind that SMUD just got a pretty big rate hike approved, so our rates are going to go up too. Especially as their power demand grows without them building sufficient generation equipment, which means they will have to purchase power too. This is especially true if winter percipitation levels are below normal because it means they can't run their hydroelectric plants as long as they used to. Hydro is pretty cheap; other fuel-based generation not so much.

PG & E has a bunch of rate increases pending too (I keep hearing from my retired Bay Area in-laws who are panicked).

[4thgenFolsomite]

PG & E has a bunch of rate increases pending too (I keep hearing from my retired Bay Area in-laws who are panicked).

yes and with water metering starting soon and sewer and garbage rates going up, its going to get more and more expensive just to pay for basic utilities in the future. you can cut out cable, but you can't cut out flushing your toilet and lighting your house.

[Lisa in Folsom]

yes, when PG&E had to sell off some of their system components, their cost of acquiring electricity went up. they used to own everything. now they have to add purchased power to their grid to keep our lights on. SMUD doesn't have to do that. However, keep in mind that SMUD just got a pretty big rate hike approved, so our rates are going to go up too. Especially as their power demand grows without them building sufficient generation equipment, which means they will have to purchase power too. This is especially true if winter percipitation levels are below normal because it means they can't run their hydroelectric plants as long as they used to. Hydro is pretty cheap; other fuel-based generation not so much.

Just curious, but I thought PG&E had lots of hydro, nuclear and gas. Don't they own a lot? Why are their rates so much higher? I know they are for profit, but why is it so dramatic? What do they say to the PUC that explains the difference because I can't imagine that "we need to make a profit for the shareholders" is a good reason.

Great comment on the dryer - I will pass that along. My friend has 3 kids which guarantees TONS of laundry!

[4thgenFolsomite]

Just curious, but I thought PG&E had lots of hydro, nuclear and gas. Don't they own a lot? Why are their rates so much higher? I know they are for profit, but why is it so dramatic? What do they say to the PUC that explains the difference because I can't imagine that "we need to make a profit for the shareholders" is a good reason.

Great comment on the dryer - I will pass that along. My friend has 3 kids which guarantees TONS of laundry!

here is a little background. remember they went through divestiture about 8 years ago.


In the post war era, PG&E went on a massive building spree, creating 14 new hydroelectric plants and 5 steam plants.

As of December 1992, PG&E operated 173 electric generating units and 85 generating stations, 18,450 miles (29,690 km) of transmission lines and 101,400 miles (163,200 km) of distribution system.

In the later 1990s, under electricity market deregulation this utility sold off most of its natural gas power plants. The utility retained all of its hydroelectric plants, the Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant and a few natural gas plants, but the large natural gas plants it sold made up a large portion of its generating capacity. This had the effect of requiring the utility to buy power from the energy generators at fluctuating prices, while being forced to sell the power to consumers at a fixed cost. However, the market for electricity was dominated by the Enron Corporation, which, with help from other corporations, artificially pushed prices for electricity ever higher. This led to the California electricity crisis that began in 2000 on Path 15, a transmission corridor PG&E built.

With a critical power shortage, rolling blackouts began on January 17, 2001.

With little generating capacity of its own, and unable to sell electricity to consumers for more than it could buy it on the open market, PG&E was forced to enter Chapter 11 bankruptcy April 6, 2001. The State of California bailed out the utility, the cost of which worsened an already bad state budget situation. This played an important part in the eventual recall of California Governor Gray Davis.

PG&E emerged from bankruptcy in April 2004, after distributing $10.2 billion to hundreds of creditors. Its 4.8 million electricity customers are expected to pay an average $1,300 to $1,700 each in above-market prices through 2012.

PG&E was one of the most profitable companies on the Fortune 500 list for 2005 with $4.5 billion in profits out of $11 billion in revenue.

[AMETHYST PRODUCTIVITY]

They may not be able to have a clothes line where they are but at one of our houses, we put one in the garage. With this heat, the stuff would be dry in no time at all.

[Lisa in Folsom]

Well, it doesn't seem like there is much that can be done about it. My in-laws won't turn on the a/c because they live in an old, energy inefficient house and are terrified about their bills. Sometimes it seems like they are being ridiculous, because our house is much bigger and the bills are not crazy, but then I hear about this and it makes sense. And to admit that my in-laws make sense is hard to do. They are in the Bay Area.

[4thgenFolsomite]

Well, it doesn't seem like there is much that can be done about it. My in-laws won't turn on the a/c because they live in an old, energy inefficient house and are terrified about their bills. Sometimes it seems like they are being ridiculous, because our house is much bigger and the bills are not crazy, but then I hear about this and it makes sense. And to admit that my in-laws make sense is hard to do. They are in the Bay Area.

well, the good news is that they are in the bay area, so unless they're in Concord, they should be fine without a/c. here, however, you could die if you were an old fart with no a/c in July or August.

[Lisa in Folsom]

well, the good news is that they are in the bay area, so unless they're in Concord, they should be fine without a/c. here, however, you could die if you were an old fart with no a/c in July or August.

No such luck - they are in the Antioch area - blazing heat. Anywhere from the Caldecott east gets blasting heat, not much diffferent from Sacto.