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East Bidwell Complete Streets Plan


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#1 kcrides99

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 12:52 PM

The City has been conducting the East Bidwell Complete Streets Corridor Plan to create a framework for what East Bidwell will look like in the future. There is a public workshop tonight at the Library between 5:30 and 7:30. http://www.folsom.ca...rridor_plan.asp

As we all know, this corridor sees a ton of traffic and is not really the best corridor unless you are in a car... and even then, its frustrating! The Plan is looking to create a complete street, that thinks about all users (Pedestrians, Bikes, Transit, etc.)

I was able to participate in the last workshop during the summer. During that meeting the business and property owners of the Central Business District (Blue Ravine to Riley) were very vocal (In particular the businesses between Glenn and Riley) and unreceptive to any changes to their corridor (ie sidewalks, landscaping, bike lanes etc.).

One of the concepts that was discussed was to reduce the portion of East Bidwell from Glenn to Riley into a single lane in each direction (currently 4 lanes). The City indicated that current and projected traffic levels do not necessitate two lanes in each direction. The benefit of removing a lane would allow for landscaping, wide sidewalks, bike lanes, etc. in this area. Given the volume of kids using this area to walk to Sutter Middle School, this seemed like a no-brainer to make it safer for them.

As you might expect, the Business/Property owners in this area came unglued. They did not want to see any changes that could result in a reduction of traffic (even though this is only a perceived result).

The City has revised the plan and made this concept "Road Diet Option" as an option "considered" but not selected due to the outcry from the owners.

I felt that these business owners should be praising the City for considering an investment into this area. It was quite clear however, these owners did not want to see any change.

I am disappointed because this vocal minority of business owners has essentially derailed what I would consider an innovative and creative approach to a poorly designed situation. The plan also initially considered roundabouts at Riley/East Bidwell and Coloma/East Bidwell, but these too were scrapped due to the vocal group.

Unfortunately these business owners efforts have squelched the very little input provided to the City that the concept was a good thing because very few people have shown up to support this concept.

My question is: Does anyone else out there care?


I have seen in several occasions where the vocal minority (in this case Business Owners) drowns out the silent majority (folks that care, but don't care enough or have time to provide feedback).

Just wondering. I would love to see the City (and more importantly the businesses in this area) invest in this stretch of East Bidwell. This area is a candidate for the worst designed/operational stretch of roadway in the City and REALLY REALLY needs help!



#2 camay2327

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 01:23 PM

I would leave them like they are. Why would anyone in their right mind want to narrow a street to one lane in each

direction. NOT......

 

The traffic will/would have to go somewhere else.  Where?

 

It would be nice if they could use some of the money they

are planning to use for this to straighten out Blue Ravine, from Riley to Prairie City Road.

There is one very bad bend in the road and there has been at least 3-4 accidents in that

area during the past 5-10 years. (Just over the wall from our home)

 

Where is all to money coming from to do this?

 

Also from reading this article you would think that everyone in Folsom rides a bike.

What's with that?

 

I am sure I will have more to say later..


A VETERAN Whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount "up to and including their life". That is HONOR, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -Author unknown-

#3 Steve Heard

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 01:32 PM

One of the concepts that was discussed was to reduce the portion of East Bidwell from Glenn to Riley into a single lane in each direction (currently 4 lanes). The City indicated that current and projected traffic levels do not necessitate two lanes in each direction. The benefit of removing a lane would allow for landscaping, wide sidewalks, bike lanes, etc. in this area. Given the volume of kids using this area to walk to Sutter Middle School, this seemed like a no-brainer to make it safer for them.

As you might expect, the Business/Property owners in this area came unglued. They did not want to see any changes that could result in a reduction of traffic (even though this is only a perceived result).

The City has revised the plan and made this concept "Road Diet Option" as an option "considered" but not selected due to the outcry from the owners.

I felt that these business owners should be praising the City for considering an investment into this area. It was quite clear however, these owners did not want to see any change.

I am disappointed because this vocal minority of business owners has essentially derailed what I would consider an innovative and creative approach to a poorly designed situation. The plan also initially considered roundabouts at Riley/East Bidwell and Coloma/East Bidwell, but these too were scrapped due to the vocal group.

My question is: Does anyone else out there care?

 

Business owners in that area have blamed their decline in revenue on the newer building up the road, the traffic going to and from the bridge, and the homeless. 

 

Here we have an opportunity to improve the area and make it more attractive, and they're against it.

 

I'm open to hearing why.    

 

I would leave them like they are. Why would anyone in their right mind want to narrow a street to one lane in each

direction. NOT......

 

The traffic will/would have to go somewhere else.  Where?

 

Where is all to money coming from to do this?

 

Also from reading this article you would think that everyone in Folsom rides a bike.

What's with that?

 

 

Don't quote me, but I think the money may come from BID (business improvement district funds) and grants for public street improvements. I could be wrong. I was once.

 

As for bikes, I am all for more bikes and fewer cars. We are healthier and so is our air, when we ride, run or walk instead of drive. I'd ride my bike more often if I felt safer.


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#4 ducky

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 01:36 PM

I think you have left out some important parts of the problems with reducing the lanes if it creates a traffic backup.  There was no study done on economic impact to the businesses that will be affected if traffic is diverted from the lanes being reduced.   I think that is a valid concern for someone who has invested their life's savings in a business.

 

Homeowners on neighboring residential streets are also concerned about a reduction in lanes leading to an increase in cut-through traffic on those streets if traffic calming is not implemented to discourage such a thing.  Businesses don't want possible customers diverted and residents don't want more traffic.  I think both things can be addressed, but just plopping down a "road diet" concept as though it is one size fits all is not the way to go about it.

 

I see very few, if any, children using that section of East Bidwell between Wales and Coloma to get to Sutter.  They use Riley or come from the neighborhoods behind the school if they are walking or biking.

 

I don't believe the roundabouts were scrapped near the middle school, at least they weren't as of the last meeting.  I would like to see safer crossings.  It would be nice if there were a continuous sidewalk and if light standards weren't in the middle of the sidewalk.

 

I heard many business owners say they agree something needs to be done, but they would just like to make sure traffic isn't diverted from the street.



Steve, I think it would come from a Caltrans grant.  They need to come up with a concept first to apply.



#5 camay2327

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 02:19 PM

 

Business owners in that area have blamed their decline in revenue on the newer building up the road, the traffic going to and from the bridge, and the homeless. 

 

Here we have an opportunity to improve the area and make it more attractive, and they're against it.

 

I'm open to hearing why.    

 

 

Don't quote me, but I think the money may come from BID (business improvement district funds) and grants for public street improvements. I could be wrong. I was once.

 

As for bikes, I am all for more bikes and fewer cars. We are healthier and so is our air, when we ride, run or walk instead of drive. I'd ride my bike more often if I felt safer.

Steve, there are a lot of older people here in Folsom and I bet that the majority of them do not go biking.


A VETERAN Whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount "up to and including their life". That is HONOR, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -Author unknown-

#6 (Cheesesteak)

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 02:20 PM

Sorry but that stretch of E Bidwell is currently an eyesore.  And - I rarely, if ever, see enough traffic on that stretch of E Bidwell to justify two lanes of traffic in each direction.  The "turn" at Sutter Middle is a mess.

 

The City needs to make sure that area stays reasonably nice and is a place that people will want to visit / shop / eat.

 

Make no mistake - the typical pattern of growth is that as new areas develop - the "tired and old" buildings get abandoned as business migrate to newer buildings / areas.  This area of E. Bidwell is prime for abaondonment as development continues on the E Bidwell / 50 Corridor.  Look what happened - Red Robin moved, Strings moved - how about the Walmart shopping center?  We will be in much worse shape - and spending considerably more money 15/20 years down the road trying to figure out how to redevelop that portion of Folsom - if we don't keep that place nice now.  What kind of busniesses do you think will backfill as existing businesses move?

 

I, frankly, like the idea of one lane in each direction in that reach of E Bidwell - smooth the turn at the middle school and keep it one lane.  I don't see it impacting traffic capacity at all.  Heck - maybe the owners of those buildings will be motivated to put some money into the storefronts and help beautify the area a bit more.



#7 nomad

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 03:16 PM

So is that how it works? They upgrade the streets but all the 1890's buildings store fronts and that weird Hotel storage unit place next to lake Bowl keep the same appearance?

 

How's that going to help?



#8 kcrides99

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 03:23 PM

The businesses claim they need the passby traffic to survive, but wouldn't good business practice dictate that you are a destination that people want to go to, not just passby? Not one of the business in that area have invested much to speak of in terms of aesthetics. I live in the area and frequently walk to the historic district because it is exciting, well design, and vibrant. It is an equal walk to the CBD... but for what? Not much over there that is a draw since Manderes moved. FLB is ok to walk to... but its not much to write home about either.

 

And Camay, the study did look at traffic going down that stretch - The volume of traffic going down that stretch did not warrant four lanes. They would have to model where the traffic is going but I would venture many are turning down Wales or Glenn to make their way to Riley.

 

Not sure how much cut through traffic their would be 90% of people are trying to get over rainbow bridge. Any cut through traffic could be resolved with good design.

 

The moral of the story is this portion of the City has been in decline since the day it was built. The business owners need to stop pointing fingers and make some improvements. They should be BEGGING the City and Caltrans for more money to create a place where us residents would like to be... not just a quick route to other points in Folsom.



Nomad - Public Investment brings private investment. As the pubic investment improves aesthetics, property values increase and property owners sell or take money out and invest. There are examples all over the region and the state where this has been the necessary change to turn around otherwise neglected areas.



#9 ducky

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 03:57 PM

You are wrong about the cut-through traffic.  It already goes down School, Wales, and Duchow when East Bidwell gets congested at Montrose, Wales & Glenn intersections  There will just be more of it unless something is done to discourage it  A good example would have been to watch the crazy driving on those residential streets this past Tuesday during the Veterans Day Parade when the stretch of East Bidwell was closed for the parade.

 

I will agree something needs to be done, but I also think it's not unreasonable to make sure a fix doesn't create more problems. Also, this fix only has to do with the roadway and not storefronts.

 

There is so much focus on bike lanes, but I think safe crossings are more important.  Glenn is also not bike friendly, but will not be included.  Riley could probably use another crossing at Orchard, but that's not being mentioned.  What about the bottleneck that happens where Riley & East Bidwell intersect?

 

I don't find restaurants the only walking destination and I can't afford a lot of what's down on Sutter St. all the time.

 

I find a lot of draws in the CBD and walk to a lot of them.  There's the Trader Joe's/Lowe's/Sbarkles center, the OSH center, Raley's, Big 5, Colton Books, the Dollar Store, Grocery Outlet, you have your pick of banks and dry cleaners, FedEx, UPS store, Bakanec's vacuum store, Malabar Indian food store, two Starbucks, Folsom Lake Bowl, DMV to drop off a payment sometimes, Rite Aid, Churchill Arms to throw darts even though I'm terrible at it, BJ's Cinnamon occasionally, Save Mart, Chipotle, Firehouse Subs.  I don't mean to leave anyone out, but the list goes on and on.  The Grocery Outlet center is actually pretty full of tenants.



#10 camay2327

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 04:00 PM

Well, why don't they just bulldoze down all those businesses and put in condos in that whole area.

 

Then we wouldn't need to build south of 50.

 

They would look nice..


A VETERAN Whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount "up to and including their life". That is HONOR, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -Author unknown-

#11 ducky

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 04:02 PM

Well, why don't they just bulldoze down all those businesses and put in condos in that whole area.

 

Then we wouldn't need to build south of 50.

 

They would look nice..

 

Camay2327, are you running for Chamber of Commerce Ambassador? j/k



#12 kcrides99

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 04:18 PM

Ducky- I am specifically focused on the area between Riley and Glen. I think the remainder of the CBD is more vibrant, has trees, successful tenants, etc... but the closer you get to Sutter Middle School the worst the corridor looks, the less tenants that are there, and the harder it is to get around (particularly with a stroller or wheelchair).



#13 ducky

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 04:27 PM

Ducky- I am specifically focused on the area between Riley and Glen. I think the remainder of the CBD is more vibrant, has trees, successful tenants, etc... but the closer you get to Sutter Middle School the worst the corridor looks, the less tenants that are there, and the harder it is to get around (particularly with a stroller or wheelchair).

I totally agree about the stroller and the wheelchair.  That is why I mentioned getting rid of the light standards in the middle of some of the sidewalks or making sure there are at least sidewalks.  Another crossing would be nice as 4thgen mentioned in another thread where this topic was discussed.

 

I just don't see the businesses as the bad guy for being concerned and involved.



#14 Steve Heard

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 04:35 PM

Steve, there are a lot of older people here in Folsom and I bet that the majority of them do not go biking.

I'm sorta older, and I know that not everyone can or will bike (although more should try).

 

I am in favor of making it easier for those that do choose cycling can do it safely.

 

I don't want to shut the streets down, just make them safer for people who aren't in cars.


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#15 mrdavex

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 05:02 PM

Well, why don't they just bulldoze down all those businesses and put in condos in that whole area.

 

Then we wouldn't need to build south of 50.

 

They would look nice..

 

That is a good idea for abandoned shopping centers (hint: the old Ralph's plaza at Blue Ravine & Natoma) or commercial buildings, rather than just creating more sprawl.  It doesn't even have to be condos since today's single-family homes seem to be all house and no lot.  


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