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Why Is The Firefighers Union Trying To Give Away Our Fire Department


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#16 Dave Burrell

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Posted 19 June 2006 - 04:29 PM

QUOTE(Kerri Howell @ Jun 19 2006, 04:42 PM) View Post

Hi All,

Prior to the Bee contacting the City on this issue, and the subsequent piece in the Metro section, I spoke with the Union Rep. He made a mysterious comment about not having authorization to talk to me, which seemed strange since I have known this person for 8 years. I told him I would give him a call on Saturday, June 3, which I did, and I have not yet heard back from him. I have no public comment on this issue at the moment. Econ101 - if you are who I think you are, give me a call, as you have my numbers, or if you are not who I think you are, it is listed in the phone book.

Kerri Howell
Council Member & Red Sox Fan (sorry, could not resist that one!)



Uh oh the plot thickens..... must be hairy if no comments can be made ...
Whatever you decide to do, please keep the citizen's best interest in mind when making decisions that effect these types of services.

No offense, but does anyone else on the council own a computer and know how to use it? If so please ask them someday to check this site out too and and post comments when they can - it'd be nice to get know the folks who are running this city and hearing whats going on - sure beats trying to interpret rumors and cryptic posts. Don't get me wrong, I sincerly appreciate (as do many others) you coming here to help out when you hear about something going on, it'd just be nice to hear from some of the others as well.

Sorry we're hard arses sometimes Kerrie, but a lot of us really care about this town and its future.....as I'm sure you do too

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#17 shallowlarynx

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 09:26 AM

Well, from what we understand, to publicly criticize our administration leadership would be paramount to career suicide, so that is probably the stance that most of us are taking in this ordeal. I'm so glad that Mr. Giacometti (or however you spell his name) so openly criticizes people that are first time posters to the forum. Nothing like making a person feel welcome on the forum. I'm glad he's the official greeter for the forum. Great Job!!!

I guess from now on, to be able to post a comment on any forum, you MUST have at least 250 or so posts to be considered "cool" enough to post??? No wonder people take the stance they do with you. Probably a huge vote getter for ya...isn't it?

On a more important note......why was it a few years ago......when the City Council had Chief Dutton in the hot seat and it looked like he was going to lose his job......did the whole situation just get swept under the carpet and it simply vanished??? Does the Chief have some dirt on the City Council or City Manager? ( haha...we weren't supposed to know about that one....were we?) We did hear that it did bring Martha to tears, the situation they were in. If you ask me, we're still not convinced that the land exchange for the current St. 35 across from Wal-mart was an up and up deal.

Nice explanation a while back by Stevethedad, who supposedly got the info from Mr. Miklos himself. Sorry, but we're pretty sure everything coming from Mr. Miklos' mouth is probably 75% crap and 25% BS. And most of us would sure like it if he would quit referring to himself as a former firefighter. We've researched that point quite a bit. Like we say....75% and 25%.

Another thing....how many outside evaluation studies does the City Council need to determine that the Fire Department isn't being ran correctly? I think we're on our 3rd or 4th study now, and they have all came to the same conclusion. I guess that's the City way....throw money at these studies until one of them comes back that they find favors their past practices and then be able to say "See? We told you so!!!".

And Ms. Howell, I cannot answer for you why our currrent Union Rep has not contacted you via phone yet. And I also wonder why Alexa hasn't called him yet either to get info straight from the horse's mouth instead of her "Sac Metro Neighbor". Crazy world we all live in I guess.......



#18 Redone

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 11:14 AM

You actually out slammed Giacometti.

Slammed list:
R. Giacometti
E. Dutton
M. Loftgren
K. Howell
A. Morin
J. Starsky
E. King
S. Miklos ( 3 X's )
D. Nielsen
R. Phillips
"Alexa"
"Sac Metro Neighbor Dude"

Can a person really blame everone else for their unhappiness in the workplace? Look yourself in the mirror and ask if you need a career change or an attitude change. Either way, I couldn't work like that.

#19 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 12:43 PM

QUOTE(shallowlarynx @ Jun 22 2006, 10:26 AM) View Post

Well, from what we understand, to publicly criticize our administration leadership would be paramount to career suicide, so that is probably the stance that most of us are taking in this ordeal. I'm so glad that Mr. Giacometti (or however you spell his name) so openly criticizes people that are first time posters to the forum. Nothing like making a person feel welcome on the forum. I'm glad he's the official greeter for the forum. Great Job!!!

I guess from now on, to be able to post a comment on any forum, you MUST have at least 250 or so posts to be considered "cool" enough to post??? No wonder people take the stance they do with you. Probably a huge vote getter for ya...isn't it?

On a more important note......why was it a few years ago......when the City Council had Chief Dutton in the hot seat and it looked like he was going to lose his job......did the whole situation just get swept under the carpet and it simply vanished??? Does the Chief have some dirt on the City Council or City Manager? ( haha...we weren't supposed to know about that one....were we?) We did hear that it did bring Martha to tears, the situation they were in. If you ask me, we're still not convinced that the land exchange for the current St. 35 across from Wal-mart was an up and up deal.

Nice explanation a while back by Stevethedad, who supposedly got the info from Mr. Miklos himself. Sorry, but we're pretty sure everything coming from Mr. Miklos' mouth is probably 75% crap and 25% BS. And most of us would sure like it if he would quit referring to himself as a former firefighter. We've researched that point quite a bit. Like we say....75% and 25%.

Another thing....how many outside evaluation studies does the City Council need to determine that the Fire Department isn't being ran correctly? I think we're on our 3rd or 4th study now, and they have all came to the same conclusion. I guess that's the City way....throw money at these studies until one of them comes back that they find favors their past practices and then be able to say "See? We told you so!!!".

And Ms. Howell, I cannot answer for you why our currrent Union Rep has not contacted you via phone yet. And I also wonder why Alexa hasn't called him yet either to get info straight from the horse's mouth instead of her "Sac Metro Neighbor". Crazy world we all live in I guess.......



Wow, At least I made the top of the list.

Its kinda flattering that someone thinks I'm capable of being that big a threat to someones agenda. Independant thinkers who aren't afraid to ask questions....is that what you think the real problem is in our city?

If you wouldn't mind showing me where I "slammed" someone new on this forum...I will apologize.

#20 shallowlarynx

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 12:53 PM

Yep...looks like shallowlarynx owes Giacometti an apology. It appears it was davburr that commented on the new posters and posters with low totals. But that's beside the point. Why can't we all just get along???????

#21 Dave Burrell

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 12:58 PM

QUOTE(shallowlarynx @ Jun 22 2006, 01:53 PM) View Post

Yep...looks like shallowlarynx owes Giacometti an apology. It appears it was davburr that commented on the new posters and posters with low totals. But that's beside the point. Why can't we all just get along???????



Probably was me, there's a lot of folks here who have been around for a long time discussing these same exact issues for a long time, and when someone new comes along and their first ever post is negative, well I personally don't think thats a great way to start off on the forum but hey everyone has concerns and wants to discuss 'em so as you noted, we should all be able to get along and for the most part I think we do.

You've made some interesting posts, your latest was a barn burner - seems to indicate you now a lot about whats going on and are privy to knowledge about some of the underhanded dealings going on in town - either that or you're making big assumptions. Either way its very interesting.

Thanks for your input - I really mean that.

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#22 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 01:04 PM

QUOTE(shallowlarynx @ Jun 22 2006, 01:53 PM) View Post

Yep...looks like shallowlarynx owes Giacometti an apology. It appears it was davburr that commented on the new posters and posters with low totals. But that's beside the point. Why can't we all just get along???????


Thanks!


#23 shallowlarynx

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 01:23 PM

Well, the real deal is every person in the fire department pretty much knows the same info, we have just been really careful not to air our dirty laundry in public. It usually is not good for business. But as it was stated in the Sac Bee article, we're tired of trying to handle things internally only to be squished by administration heavy handedness.

There really is a common fear of the administration coming down on individuals for voicing their concern. As I have stated in the past.....to speak out in the past was virtual career suicide. Those that have spoken out in the past have been passed over for promotion many, many times.....usually without reason other than a vendetta by the fire chief. I believe that was pointed out in one of the many outside review committees the city paid for a while back that was conveniently swept under the carpet. If you don't believe me, start asking around about the Kaywood (sp.) report. It is a confidential report the city paid for a few years ago that analyzed the management (or mis-management) of the fire department by the current fire chief.

I believe that to the common citizen the going-ons of the fire department would literally blow your mind. There is no wonder that the Folsom Fire Department has one of the area's highest turnover rates among ff/paramedics. They come here....we train them at a great expense to the city....and then they leave to a more proactive department in the area. Heck, in the last 5 or so years alone we have probably lost 50% of the new firefighters we've hired. Problem? Nahhhh, not according to the administration.

Here's another point. Ever notice more and more dark red ambulances in the city lately? The ambulances with the words Sac Metro Fire on them? Know why? Well, Folsom refuses to upstaff another ambulance during the day's busiest hours, so when our two (yes only two) ambulances are on other calls, big brother Sac Metro has to come and help us out. And since 80% of our calls are medical related, that counts for a lot of coverage from Sac Metro. Wonder why they want to merge with us??? Heck, they're running 25% of our calls already, so why not?

Oh yeah.....remember the post about having a fire truck that isn't built right to handle all of the equipment needed? Well, the firefighters planned out a new fire truck specified to carry everything a light rescue/medium rescue truck is supposed to carry. It is called a tiller. We carried it through budgeting and were approved for an amount of 1million, give or take. That is what these things cost. Well, one of these outside review committees deemed it not necessary, so that purchase plan has been nixed. Back to square one again, I guess.

The thing we are seeing with these review committees is this....if it appeases the city's views as well as the fire chief's views, the study must be correct. Of course. But if it contradicts what has been said by the city and the chiefs, well then that study was full of crap. Tax payers dollars.......hear that flushing sound?

#24 Dave Burrell

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 01:31 PM

It sounds like its time to flush the chief and the administrators and get someone in there who can do the job right.

Thats a bad situation there based entirely on inept management, its time for the city council to step up to the plate and do their jobs and correct this problem - starting with replacing the chief

Good luck! We're on your side here.

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#25 Kerri Howell

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 02:32 PM

I don't think I got slammed in that post, the FF was merely pointing out that he did not know why the Union Rep had not called me back. For the record, he did call me back about an hour after I posted - and he apologized for not having called me back earlier. We then had a lovely conversation, as we usually do. I know many of you consider this whole issue with the Fire Department to be "public information" and therefore an acceptable topic of conversation on this web site. On the other hand, as a Council Member, I consider this to be a combination of two issues, those being personnel and labor negotiations, neither of which would be appropriate for me (as a Council Member) to comment on here.

#26 Alexa

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 04:52 PM

[quote name='shallowlarynx' date='Jun 22 2006, 02:23 PM' post='117846']
Well, the real deal is every person in the fire department pretty much knows the same info, we have just been really careful not to air our dirty laundry in public. It usually is not good for business. But as it was stated in the Sac Bee article, we're tired of trying to handle things internally only to be squished by administration heavy handedness.


blink.gif
You dirty laundry got aired for you and my neighbor is only too happy to share the rest. By the way, I have not and will not call Mr Gedsted as I've been told he is one of the main problems. I'm sure he would love to know who my neighbor is. Is this the first time 522 has attempted to chase a fire chief out? Rumor has it that this is no. 3 for 522 and Mr. Gedsted.

Speaking of heavy handness there is another faction of the folsom firefighters union who are afraid to come forward against the union as they will be blackballed the rest of their careers....



#27 shallowlarynx

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 05:25 PM

I am quite sure your neighbor is more than ready to air our dirty laundry for us. Since Sac Metro is such the perfect Fire Department, I can see why he/she would worry about our small department and our problems. It must be nice to have a life and job so perfect you can take the time out of your plain life and start bashing other's.

The funny part about all of this is, most of these problems go back probably 6, 7, 8 years or so. It seems to definately be hitting a head right now, and we're all pretty sure it will get much uglier before it smooths out.

Almost like the turmoil of other departments a few years ago, it really sucks to be the center of controversy. All we can hope for is the City Council holds faith in the day to day firefighters and realizes what comes about if one were to merge with a huge department like Sac Metro.

#28 MikeinFolsom

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 05:36 PM

Hmmmmm, Chief Welch retired, Menard was canned by the City Council (given the option to retire), now it's the current Chief. 3 huh?

1. Grab huge stick

2. Insert stick into big pot of doo-doo.

3. Stir in a circular motion.

4. Write about it on myfolsom.com


Did I get it right Alexa?????

#29 Alexa

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 07:28 PM

QUOTE(MikeinFolsom @ Jun 22 2006, 06:36 PM) View Post

Hmmmmm, Chief Welch retired, Menard was canned by the City Council (given the option to retire), now it's the current Chief. 3 huh?

1. Grab huge stick

2. Insert stick into big pot of doo-doo.

3. Stir in a circular motion.

4. Write about it on myfolsom.com
Did I get it right Alexa?????



Mike in Folsom

1. Nerd

2. Has too much time on hands.

3. Obviously not smart enough to be a firefighter

4. Clear now why you are car salesman

5. Take your stick.........you come up with the rest

#30 NY Yankees

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 09:13 AM

With all due respect Alexa, you are a fraud! Quit trying to pass yourself off as a conerned citizen and the neighbor of a Folsom Firefighter. You are neither. The reason you won't call me is becuase I would find out that you are a member of the fire administration or a mouth piece for one of them that doesn't have the courage to come here themselves. Tell your so called "neighbor" to quit hiding behind your skirt! And by the way, I don't care who your neighbor is, they don't know what they are talking about anyway.

There seems to be a mis-conception that the Union hires and fires employees in the City of Folsom. The City Manager is the hiring and firing agent for the City and administrative personnel. If anyone has been fired it has been for good cause.

I do resent the accusation that I caused the demise of Chief Welch. Let me put you straight. Cheif Welch is and will always be my Chief. The man gave me an opportunity to have the life that I do and a career that I love. In fact, I was not the Union Rep. at the time he retired nor did I do anything to hasten his retirement. I respect and miss the man to this day. I was one of two firefighters that attended to his casket in the fire engine to his final resting place and then took his photo to the WTC and ground zero because I felt he deserved to be there to represent my/our fire department.

As far as Mr. Mornard it is no secret that the Union looked to have him removed but it was not our decision to make. In fact, you may want to ask Chief Dutton how much influence he had on Mr. Mornards demise.

Lastly, your allegation that there is a faction (1 or 2) firefighters that are in fear of the Union....what a croc. Any person that is unhappy with union policy or decisions has been given the opportunity to address the issue with me personnally or has the option to go to the Executive Board and present their grievence. You are merely spreading second hand information as with the rest of your posts. You portray yourself as someone who seeks truth but if that were the case you would have called me to seek the other side of the story rather than take the word of your "neighbor". I can only anticipate a similar response to this post as you gave to Mike in Folsom so do us a favor...save it.

So,with all due respect Alexa..... know what you are talking about before you smear someone by name on this board, it borders on defamation of character.

To the rest of the members of this board I stand by my earlier post, The men and women of Folsom Fire Department are dedicated professionals that give 110% of themselves to the community the serve. Feel free to stop by any fire station and say hello, if you see us out and about we would love to say hello too, that includes you too Alexa.





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