167 replies to this topic

[ducky]

 

I don't know how it actually works, but it's been "fun" (in my otherwise boring life) to speculate on the "secret" water releases done during the wee hours under the cloak of darkness.

 

If you look at the hourly releases it does look like they bump up starting early evening, but not middle of the night.  It was 2399 CFS at 4:00 p.m., 4506 CFS at 7:00 p.m.,, the highest at 10:00 p.m. at 4700 CFS, and then down to 2405 at 4:00 a.m. 

The lake is now down to 416.52 as of 4:00 a.m. today.

 

cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?FOL

[mrdavex]

 

If you look at the hourly releases it does look like they bump up starting early evening, but not middle of the night.  It was 2399 CFS at 4:00 p.m., 4506 CFS at 7:00 p.m.,, the highest at 10:00 p.m. at 4700 CFS, and then down to 2405 at 4:00 a.m. 

The lake is now down to 416.52 as of 4:00 a.m. today.

 

cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?FOL

 

Since the purpose of the dams is to store and release water to keep the salt water from the bay out of the Delta, I wonder if this release schedule coincides with the tide schedule, in that more water must be released prior to the high tides.

 

Per this tide chart I found for Suisun Bay http://tides.mobileg...ions/6217.html, it does look like the high tide happened at 3 AM today, which might explain why a lot of water had to be released at 10 PM last night to co counterbalance the high tide.  I don't know how long it takes for water released from Folsom Lake to reach the Delta, but 4-5 hours would seem right.  

[Rich_T]

Interesting stuff, and nice analysis/calculation by mrdavex.  It's too bad that one of the actual decision makers can't answer our questions for us here on this discussion board.

[maestro]

MAJOR CONCERN to this local:

 

  NO ONE has estimated the water storage requirements to keep local HUMANs alive.    State water boards have not listened to the local water agencies, and certainly have NOT   done calculations to ensure some RESERVE for LOCAL Humans is set ASIDE!!!

 

 

Comment on WATER STORAGE:   reservoirs do have water belonging to certain local districts.   HOWEVER, our guv is pushing for the state water board to have the power to FORCE local districts to CONSOLIDATE.       How's that for usurping power!!

 

 

Comment on water tanks:   order online from www.beprepared.com.     This is Emergency Essentials located in Utah.   They offer the best prices and service, and fast delivery.    Customer service is excellent.    Buy direct.  Be sure your water storage for drinking water is a safe plastic, and comes with the equipment to pull water out the top of the barrel.

 

Comment on USBR:   if Reclamation has a barge with eleven pumps to raise the bottom water up to the water intake in Folsom Reservoir, they know dry times are ahead.

 

 

Comment on federally built Folsom Reservoir:   it was built primarily with federal $$$  for the purpose of FLOOD control.     It is TIME to ask our Congressmen to demand the feds  CALCULATE  our local survival water needs in a drought.       If the Pacific Ocean continues to warm, our future may be like our today.

 

 

Comment on over-building and state water board (and guv)    REFUSING to institute a moratorium on NEW Zoning Entitlements where there is NO water supply known to exist:       Yes, Virginia, there is no snow and little prospect for the good old days when the mountain ranges had lots of it.          Desalinate the ocean or go dry.........

 

Last thought:   has anyone thought about lack of water for flushing?    The hell with green lawns in Socal.  

 

 

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[ducky]

Interesting stuff, and nice analysis/calculation by mrdavex.  It's too bad that one of the actual decision makers can't answer our questions for us here on this discussion board.

 

I read an article by the Water Education Foundation called, "Finding the Right Balance: Managing Delta Salinity in Drought."  It helped my understanding of all the factors that come into play with the Delta salinity.

 

I am  concerned that Folsom water rights might as well be Monopoly money even if the drought doesn't continue, yet our city is planning as though they will have that supply available. Conservation will only get us so far, especially if the drought continues and the population in the state keeps increasing.    After we all get rid of our lawns, the city has abandoned their street tree ordinance because nobody can water them, and there's still not enough water to flush our toilets by August every year, what's next? 

[SacKen]

 

A message just arrived from Reclamation USBR --    the releases from Folsom Reservoir are being increased even more.    This is about sending water to Socal.

A reasonable release rate given this drought is 500 cfs, not 2,500 cubic feet per second.

 

Correct. This has nothing to do with fish. They use that excuse because then they can get people to do their fighting for them.  The delta can sustain periods of high salinity and I bet sea water periodically backflowing into the delta is even necessary to replenish nutrients and keep the delta healthy.  Without dams, it would naturally happen almost every year when the river flows drop once the snow melts.

 

This is about water for SoCal.  They can't sell it to SoCal if the delta salinity reaches the intake pipes for SoCal. If they close that pipe, a whole bunch of water money gets cut off, too.  Even central valley farmers have started selling what little water rights they still have because it is more profitable than the farm itself.

[Rich_T]

They can't sell it to SoCal if the delta salinity reaches the intake pipes for SoCal.

 

The plot thickens.

[4thgenFolsomite]

yes, its money, but if there weren't demand, there wouldn't be money.  demand means users.  otherwise known as people dependent on that water.  hard choices to be made for certain.

[ducky]

Hard choices to be certain, but I'm wondering how much is mismanagement because of slow-moving governmental bureaucracy.

It seems like they are purposely causing a crisis with the amount of water being released in the last week.

 

As Sac Ken pointed out, the Delta survived salinity fluctuations before, and it's even been pointed out that perhaps the artificial freshwater intrusions help invasive species take hold.  Couldn't they put up temporary barriers during a drought to stop the saltwater influx if it got that bad?  And not just SoCal gets the water flowing down to the Delta.  Santa Clara and Alameda depend on that water, too.

 

Does anyone know if Folsom is already working on a new intake if the lake drops too low?

[4thgenFolsomite]

isn't the BOR already working on the low level intake?

[mrdavex]

Couldn't they put up temporary barriers during a drought to stop the saltwater influx if it got that bad? 

 

They already have: http://www.news10.ne...ought/27010277/

[ducky]

 

They already have: http://www.news10.ne...ought/27010277/

 

Thanks for that link.

[2 Aces]

I'm alarmed that more people aren't alarmed at the prospect of running out of water in 2 or 3 months, as those are reports I am seeing in the media, with quotes from sources who are *in the know*. Should I not be alarmed? Maybe people are alarmed, but we just don't hear about it? Are you alarmed? Or does it take a serious crisis before people wake up and say, "what the hell just happened?" You would think this topic would warrant wall-to-wall media coverage in Calif, but it doesn't. I just don't get it.

[nomad]

I'm alarmed that more people aren't alarmed at the prospect of running out of water in 2 or 3 months, as those are reports I am seeing in the media, with quotes from sources who are *in the know*. Should I not be alarmed? Maybe people are alarmed, but we just don't hear about it? Are you alarmed? Or does it take a serious crisis before people wake up and say, "what the hell just happened?" You would think this topic would warrant wall-to-wall media coverage in Calif, but it doesn't. I just don't get it.

 

It's in the news, just look at Fox today. Here was the headline for most of the day:

 

http://www.foxnews.c...d-drought-move/

[Rich_T]

I doubt that many people actually believe that there will be no water in 2-3 months.  I know I don't believe it.  My attitude comes from a lifetime of noticing that reality seldom lives up to the hype.  Plus, aside from moving, what can I do that I'm not already doing?  Should I just start acting alarmed every day?