45 replies to this topic

[Robert Gary]

Are you kidding me????
Double UGH! I asbsolutely value art majors and willingly give my tax dollars to pay for majors like that. Art is an amazing part of our society and I value it just as much as those that design blue tooth headphones and the like.
How can you possibly say that art doens't benefit society? Been to a museum lately???

It's not always about the $$$...

But its $$$ that we send to the Universities. The state of California collects taxes from me without my concent or necessarily desire. To take money from me to invest in a student who will then return dividends to tax payers as a tax payer herself makes financial sense. To take my taxes from me to spend on a student who wants to study art in order to "be a better person" is another thing all together. If you want to study art, knock yourself out, but don't take money away from me to pay for it. Remember that all taxes are collected by force. Its one thing to take money from someone in order to eduate someone who will later pay a lot of taxes, its another thing to take that money for someone who will not.

-Robert

[Robert Gary]

Isn't it great we live in America and can chose what we would like to study and be?

You mean we can choose what we want the taxpayers to subsidize us to study. Personally I would change the state tuition system to reflect the ROI a particular degree creates. Right now we really need engineering and computer majors. I would not only cover the cost of the tuition for these students I would pay them to go to school. For people who major in psychology and art, etc I would remove the subsidy. Nothing wrong with them studying those subjects but its not going to return a dividend to the California tax payers.

Remember, this isn't about what people should study or what they should have access to study. This is solely about what we should force middle class families to pay for. If an art degree is a benefit to you, great, but your art degree is not a benefit to me so don't ask me to pay for your art degree.

-Robert

[Darthvader]

Art is more than just art.....it is music, etc. Art is part of our culture.

You ever wonder why the phrase "starving artist" was coined?

[ChipShot]

When parents don't care, it's an impossible battle. That's the problem these days...the parents don't take an active role. The laziness.

In fact, I think most parents consider school a babysitter, of sorts...to look after the kids while the parents work, play, sleep, lounge around on the couch, etc...

A sad, sad situation that doesn't bode well.

Not sure there's a solution.

It's broken.

[Carl G]

You ever wonder why the phrase "starving artist" was coined?

When I was 13 I worked for my brother landscaping. I remember digging a ditch next to my brother-in-law. He was a graduate from college with a degree in art.

That job taught me that I needed to stay in school and get a degree, but not in art!

[Robert Gary]

Do you know of someone with an art or psychology degree that isn't working and paying taxes?

Many and most of them would be working the same job and paying the same taxes without the degree. That is my point. Its fun to study whatever you want but tax payer subsidies should be based on the increased taxes that the student will later pay as a result. If we could increase the subsidy to engineering and computer releated majors not only would we increase our tax collection base but we could also offset some of the policial actions that have been moving technology companies away from California.

-Robert

[Robert Gary]

When I was 13 I worked for my brother landscaping. I remember digging a ditch next to my brother-in-law. He was a graduate from college with a degree in art.

That job taught me that I needed to stay in school and get a degree, but not in art!

When I was in high school I managed a fast food resturant. One of my peers had a psychology degree. Same thing. College should be about learning something to make a better living. You can always study Underwater Basket Weaving when you become a Seasoned Citizen.

-Robert

[Robert Gary]

When parents don't care, it's an impossible battle. That's the problem these days...the parents don't take an active role. The laziness.

...

A sad, sad situation that doesn't bode well.

Not sure there's a solution.

It's broken.

One problem is that I believe its still illegal for parents to educate their children at home. The decision of "Jonathan L. v. Superior Court, Cal.Rptr.3d, 2008 WL 3197535, Cal.App. 2 Dist., 2008" pretty much ended the ability for parents to set up their own home school. I was expecting there would be a proposition on the ballet in November to over turn this decision but its not looking like it. I'm not sure what the current status of this is but it was a major defeat for the rights of parents to determine the education of their children. The teachers union argues that parents are not "equipped" to educate their own children and that we must send our kids to professionals.

-Robert

[stacycam]

When I was in high school I managed a fast food resturant. One of my peers had a psychology degree. Same thing. College should be about learning something to make a better living. You can always study Underwater Basket Weaving when you become a Seasoned Citizen.

-Robert

There are a lot of jobs that REQUIRE a psych degree. Usually those with psych degrees must go on to obtain their Master's. I worked for Sac County and most of the people would not have jobs if they did not have their psychology degree. I wonder if there are any psychiatrists (MDs) who started out with a psych degree. I don't think you can discount an entire field because YOU don't think it's a good degree.

Everyone has a story about knowing or working with someone who doesn't use their degree. Take me for example. My degree is in Economics (is that a tax-worthy degree?), but I worked in HR, at a job that didn't REQUIRE a degree. So, is Econ considered a good enough degree to pay taxes into? Well, how about for me? I picked Econ primarily because it was an E-A-S-Y degree. WAY easier for me than Psych would have been. I got my degree for my own personal growth and worth. I never intended to become an Economist. I STILL don't know what I want to be! I'm 38, so it's too late anyway. I'll just stick with being a mom. So, what about all the students like me? Also, I was an Engineering major for a year. Yikes, more wasted tax money!

Education teaches people so much - how to communicate, setting priorities, the ability to follow through and complete something. Even Art, Leisure Studies, Psych, Criminal Justice majors all take general education to teach them.

I just don't see how you can draw the line about which degrees are tax-worthy. There is so much more to education than that piece of paper.

[stacycam]

When parents don't care, it's an impossible battle. That's the problem these days...the parents don't take an active role. The laziness.

In fact, I think most parents consider school a babysitter, of sorts...to look after the kids while the parents work, play, sleep, lounge around on the couch, etc...

A sad, sad situation that doesn't bode well.

Not sure there's a solution.

It's broken.

I actually agree with you. I am not referring to the parents in the upper class neighborhoods. I'm talking about the drug-addicted, or single parent working too many jobs to notice their kids, or the stupid 16yo who got pregnant and would rather be out partying with her friends. The list goes on and on. More and more kids are falling into those categories. I think this is a HUGE problem. Kids in those situations are pretty much lost. What impact will that have on our nation in 15-20 years?

[Deb aka Resume Lady]

One problem is that I believe its still illegal for parents to educate their children at home. The decision of "Jonathan L. v. Superior Court, Cal.Rptr.3d, 2008 WL 3197535, Cal.App. 2 Dist., 2008" pretty much ended the ability for parents to set up their own home school. I was expecting there would be a proposition on the ballet in November to over turn this decision but its not looking like it. I'm not sure what the current status of this is but it was a major defeat for the rights of parents to determine the education of their children. The teachers union argues that parents are not "equipped" to educate their own children and that we must send our kids to professionals.

-Robert

The right to homeschool was upheld in court early August:

http://californiahom...2878August8.pdf

[Revolutionist]

One problem is that I believe its still illegal for parents to educate their children at home. The decision of "Jonathan L. v. Superior Court, Cal.Rptr.3d, 2008 WL 3197535, Cal.App. 2 Dist., 2008" pretty much ended the ability for parents to set up their own home school. I was expecting there would be a proposition on the ballet in November to over turn this decision but its not looking like it. I'm not sure what the current status of this is but it was a major defeat for the rights of parents to determine the education of their children. The teachers union argues that parents are not "equipped" to educate their own children and that we must send our kids to professionals.

-Robert

That decision was just recently struck down by the same court that issued it

http://www.sfgate.co...?...J.DTL&tsp=1