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New Off-roading Limits


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Poll: For or against new restrictions (32 member(s) have cast votes)

Are you for the new restrictions?

  1. Yes, I think 4-wheeling is damaging to the environment (13 votes [40.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 40.62%

  2. No, everyone has the right to enjoy the forest (17 votes [53.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.12%

  3. Undecided (2 votes [6.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.25%

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#1 Bill Z

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 05:59 PM

Off-roaders lose 1,000 miles of trail in new Eldorado plan.
http://www.sacbee.co...ory/829734.html

Please vote and then state your position.
I would rather be Backpacking


#2 Bill Z

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 06:05 PM

QUOTE(Bill Z @ Apr 2 2008, 06:59 PM) View Post
Off-roaders lose 1,000 miles of trail in new Eldorado plan.
http://www.sacbee.co...ory/829734.html

Please vote and then state your position.

I'm undecided, mainly because they didn't show a map of what is being newly closed.
When I used to 4-wheel, I've seen first hand the damage the 4-wheeling community can do to the forest, but not all 4-wheelers are inconsiderate, some do clean up after themselves and others.

I'm curious if some of the dirt roads I drive on to get to backpacking trailheads, undesignated campsites, and shooting locations are among the closures.
I would rather be Backpacking


#3 Howdy

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 09:20 AM

QUOTE(Bill Z @ Apr 2 2008, 07:05 PM) View Post
I'm curious if some of the dirt roads I drive on to get to backpacking trailheads, undesignated campsites, and shooting locations are among the closures.


You can count on it. Most of the 1000 miles were not actual trails, but the kind of roads(logging roads, service roads) you could travel in a mild 4wheel drive or even 2 wheel drive to get to your favorite hunting, shooting, fishing, etc. spot.


#4 Howdy

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 09:41 AM

QUOTE(Bill Z @ Apr 2 2008, 07:05 PM) View Post
I'm undecided, mainly because they didn't show a map of what is being newly closed.
When I used to 4-wheel, I've seen first hand the damage the 4-wheeling community can do to the forest, VERY FEW 4-wheelers are inconsiderate, MOST do clean up after themselves and others.


There....fixed it for you. biggrin.gif

If you go to the USFS El Dorado forest site you can look at the old map and the new map and see what has been taken off the new map vs old. You really shouldn't base your opinion on the closures going off a map. That makes it seem that as long as the places you like to go are still open, you are ok with everything else being closed. They might not have closed the road to your favorite place to go this time around, but maybe next time its your spots.

Remember these are PUBLIC lands that are being closed to the PUBLIC. If you don't stand up now and help fight to keep the trails others like to use open, who is going to be there to stand behind you when they come for your favorite trail.


#5 folsombound

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 09:56 AM

Are they stopping PUBLIC use or just the use of off-road vehicles. There is a difference.

#6 supermom

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 10:15 AM

I didn't vote--you forgot to put in your poll:

'I think off roaders should off road in designated areas.'

That way it destroys only one particular area: other people don't have to deal with offroaders when hiking, or hunting or fishing. And ofcoarse--off roaders needs --like ramps-pits-wide trails, no pedestians would be a safer and better environment for them.

ps. I'm totally ok with someone evacuating all person living in orangevale and turning that area into an offroader paradise. ( joking! )

#7 Howdy

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 10:24 AM

QUOTE(folsombound @ Apr 3 2008, 10:56 AM) View Post
Are they stopping PUBLIC use or just the use of off-road vehicles. There is a difference.



Public means equal access for everyone. Just not select groups.

#8 folsombound

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 10:40 AM

QUOTE(Howdy @ Apr 3 2008, 11:24 AM) View Post
Public means equal access for everyone. Just not select groups.



I guess we might disagree on that. Public use means it is available for anyone to use but maybe not for Hummers, dirt bikes, motorized vehicles, etc.

#9 Howdy

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 10:47 AM

QUOTE(supermom @ Apr 3 2008, 11:15 AM) View Post
I didn't vote--you forgot to put in your poll:

'I think off roaders should off road in designated areas.'

That way it destroys only one particular area: other people don't have to deal with offroaders when hiking, or hunting or fishing. And ofcoarse--off roaders needs --like ramps-pits-wide trails, no pedestians would be a safer and better environment for them.

ps. I'm totally ok with someone evacuating all person living in orangevale and turning that area into an offroader paradise. ( joking! )



You don't make any sense. We have wilderness areas that are designated as such so that we can enjoy our forests by hiking in. At the same time we have OHV routes that are designated as such so that we may drive in. If hikers are hiking on OHV routes then they should expect to see some OHV. There are many trails just for hiking where you will not hear or encounter a motor vehicle all day. I know as I have done more than a fair share of backpacking and hiking in the Sierras. Do some research on this subject before you pretend to know all about this subject. As far as offroaders "destroying" the forests Kurt brought up a good point on Sacbee.

"The claim that hikers do less damage to the enviroment that OHV is absurd. The Angora fire in South Lake Tahoe was started by someone who hiked in and lit an illegal campfire. It ended up burning MANY acres of forest and many buildings. The eroison from losing so many tress will be greatly increased and silt will flow into Lake Tahoe becuasse of it. The OHV community in the central Sierras HAS NEVER done that much damage to the enviroment or public property in it's entire history. A person with a 4x4 will also be better equipt to deal with a simular issue that a hiker."


#10 Howdy

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 10:57 AM

QUOTE(folsombound @ Apr 3 2008, 11:40 AM) View Post
I guess we might disagree on that. Public use means it is available for anyone to use but maybe not for Hummers, dirt bikes, motorized vehicles, etc.



Huh? Sounds like an oxymoron. "available for anyone" "but not for"

So which is it? Available for anyone or just a select group?

I don't think you understand what a National Forest is. They are "multi-use"

Are you talking about the whole forest or about a particular route?

#11 chris v

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 11:10 AM

QUOTE(folsombound @ Apr 3 2008, 10:56 AM) View Post
Are they stopping PUBLIC use or just the use of off-road vehicles. There is a difference.

That is public use. It's equal use for everyone, not just select groups. I've seen first hand mtn, bikers do more dmage than most 4 wheelers are dirt bike riders.

#12 supermom

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 11:40 AM

QUOTE(supermom @ Apr 3 2008, 11:15 AM) View Post
I didn't vote--you forgot to put in your poll:

'I think off roaders should off road in designated areas.' I should have stated: ONLY

That way it destroys only one particular area: other people don't have to deal with offroaders when hiking, or hunting or fishing. And ofcoarse--off roaders needs --like ramps-pits-wide trails, no pedestians would be a safer and better environment for them.



QUOTE(Howdy @ Apr 3 2008, 11:47 AM) View Post
You don't make any sense. We have wilderness areas that are designated as such so that we can enjoy our forests by hiking in. At the same time we have OHV routes that are designated as such so that we may drive in. If hikers are hiking on OHV routes then they should expect to see some OHV. There are many trails just for hiking where you will not hear or encounter a motor vehicle all day. I know as I have done more than a fair share of backpacking and hiking in the Sierras. Do some research on this subject before you pretend to know all about this subject. As far as offroaders "destroying" the forests Kurt brought up a good point on Sacbee.

"The claim that hikers do less damage to the enviroment that OHV is absurd. The Angora fire in South Lake Tahoe was started by someone who hiked in and lit an illegal campfire. It ended up burning MANY acres of forest and many buildings. The eroison from losing so many tress will be greatly increased and silt will flow into Lake Tahoe becuasse of it. The OHV community in the central Sierras HAS NEVER done that much damage to the enviroment or public property in it's entire history. A person with a 4x4 will also be better equipt to deal with a simular issue that a hiker."

Not sure about the you don't make any sense part: unless your referring to **gasp** your attitude of quick anger when someone says hey, the offroad vehicles should have their own entertainment facilities and venues. To be honest with you--I don't think they even should have a place in the state parks. I feel they should be authorized in your backyard or in professionally built place that caters to these vehicles and their riders. but, just because I feel that way doesn't mean I jumping all over you. It's obvious that you feel strongly about this issue. Whatever.

The argument that a hiker caused a fire so off roaders do less damage is: well, lame.
Last year a lawnmower caused a big fire. Therefore should we outlaw all vehicles with lawnmower sized engines or smaller--from state parks?
Sorry. Just had to go there.
Look, yes, we all know that hikers end up leaving trash behind. It would be great if all hikers could be nice to the environment, we can't police all hikers all the time, can we?
However, off roading vehicles are leaving fluids onto plants-messying up the water/drinking supplies of animals; destroy roots of trees and tear up small plants and foliage. Off road vehicles are designed to tear up the dirt for traction. They are not even, in any way, environmentally friendly. Period.

So comparing one stupid hiker causing a fire to thousands of offroading vehicles tearing up a protected environment like **the last freaking forests left in California*** is kinda--yea, well, lame.

Thus, I said--I think that off road vehicles should be enclosed in a certain area --built just for the glory of off road vehicles. A budding entrepenurial suburbanites dream, if you ask me.

#13 Bill Z

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 11:40 AM

QUOTE
QUOTE(Bill Z @ Apr 2 2008, 07:05 PM)
I'm undecided, mainly because they didn't show a map of what is being newly closed.
When I used to 4-wheel, I've seen first hand the damage the 4-wheeling community can do to the forest, VERY FEW 4-wheelers are inconsiderate, MOST do clean up after themselves and others.
QUOTE(Howdy @ Apr 3 2008, 10:41 AM) View Post
There....fixed it for you. biggrin.gif


If MOST clean up after themselves, why was the last time I was at Little Sluice, there was exposed TP every 3 to 5 feet anywhere I looked in the forest. It was truly disgusting to see that much litter and knowing what was not properly buried below that tuft of white. If it had been properly buried, the white stuff wouldn't be exposed.
If MOST 4-wheelers cleaned up after themselves, the 4-wheeling club called "Pirates of the Rubicon" wouldn't have a need for their annual run to clean up the trail late in the season.

But yes, I was bummed when the trail to (I can't think of the name) Falls above Union Valley Reservoir was closed. That was great place to go for a quick one-day run.
I would rather be Backpacking


#14 chris v

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 11:57 AM

QUOTE(Bill Z @ Apr 3 2008, 12:40 PM) View Post
If MOST clean up after themselves, why was the last time I was at Little Sluice, there was exposed TP every 3 to 5 feet anywhere I looked in the forest. It was truly disgusting to see that much litter and knowing what was not properly buried below that tuft of white. If it had been properly buried, the white stuff wouldn't be exposed.
If MOST 4-wheelers cleaned up after themselves, the 4-wheeling club called "Pirates of the Rubicon" wouldn't have a need for their annual run to clean up the trail late in the season.

But yes, I was bummed when the trail to (I can't think of the name) Falls above Union Valley Reservoir was closed. That was great place to go for a quick one-day run.


You're talking about Bassi Falls... you can still hike it.... rolleyes.gif

#15 chris v

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 12:00 PM

The bottom line is, every group is guilty of being "messy" because of a few stupid individuals, this does not mean that singling out one or two specific groups and taking away their rights is going to solve the problems. There are parts of the El Dorado Naitonal forest where OHV have never been allowed.




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