[john]

Here's the skinny:

1) Arena downtown
2) New fairgrounds at current Arco Arena site
3) mixed development where the fairgrounds are now

Paid for. $300M by Maloofs, rest by investors.
Backed by NBA & Maloofs!

GET IT DONE!

http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-n...0,5858245.story

[Jolene]

Oh ick. I don't like the fair being that far out.

EDITED to SAY: WAIT! But that means concerts will be closer. I like THAT part. Disregard my knee-jerk (emphasis on the jerk) reaction!

[john]

How many times a year do you go to the fair?

[c_vanderveen]

Have you heard!? This is a amazing idea. Here's how I understand it will work.

1. The Maloofs and an investment bank each put up $300,000,000 to build a $600,000,000 arena next to the rail depot.

2. The Maloofs sign a 30-year lease, after which the arena belongs to the city.

3. Meanwhile, the arena developers will also buy CalExpo and repurpose it as mixed use residential.

4. The Maloofs and the City give the Arco land to CalExpo, as well as Arco arena.

5. CalExpo can move off the existing expo site at their leisure and use the cash payment from the developers to build a new fairground next to Arco, creating a modern fairground facility.

6. CalExpo gets a new, better home in a better location. The city gets a new arena. And not a penny of new taxes are used.

If this fails, nothing else could ever work.

[c_vanderveen]

John, can you fold in my thread?

[john]

I honestly don't know how this can fail... it's really pretty bulletproof. Arena AND new fairgrounds near freeways; arena is right next to light rail too; Sacramento gets its new arena and a brand new fairgrounds. Jobs.

Oh! And it's paid for. If this doesn't work, Sacramento is hopeless.

[cw68]

I honestly don't know how this can fail... it's really pretty bulletproof. Arena AND new fairgrounds near freeways; arena is right next to light rail too; Sacramento gets its new arena and a brand new fairgrounds. Jobs.

Oh! And it's paid for. If this doesn't work, Sacramento is hopeless.

I agree. What more could anyone ask for?

[davburr]

I honestly don't know how this can fail... it's really pretty bulletproof. Arena AND new fairgrounds near freeways; arena is right next to light rail too; Sacramento gets its new arena and a brand new fairgrounds. Jobs.

Oh! And it's paid for. If this doesn't work, Sacramento is hopeless.

It sounds like a win win situation for everyone, what could possibly stop this and why?

[Robert Giacometti]

Remember back a few years ago when people were making the claim that if we did NOT pass the sales tax increase we would loose the Kings?

The Kings aren't going anywhere and our taxes aren't being raised and there will be a new Arena in the region and the Maloofs are contributing towards it.

I just hope some will rethink their eagerness to throw away their money on taxes everytime some government agency claims they need more!

[mylo]

Perhaps I'm confused, Why would the Maloofs and "the investor" give away $600M to the city?

And what's the relation with CalExpo selling their land and moving "next to" Arco? This sounds mutually exclusive of any Arco abandonment or Railyard development.

I must be missing something...

My only theory is that rather than taking directly from taxpayers pockets, the Maloofs are taking from our assets (namely Real Estate) and "borrowing" land, at their massive profit at no expense, for 30 years.

If that's the case, I'd rather sell the land to the Chinese, pocket the cash, and pay off the mortgage of every homeowner in Folsom.

[mylo]

Yep, reading the article, this is a shell game to hide "taking from Taxpayers" 3 deals deep.

Why don't we give Arco to the State, sell CalExpo to the developers, and keep the cash?

Or, better yet, admit we're giving this money to the Maloofs for free, and take it directly via taxes rather than trying to mask it in sneaky unrelated real estate deals.

[john]

The new fairgrounds would be built on the land where the half-built baseball stadium is; they can keep the arena if they wanted to, which they very much might do, and remodel it or re-purpose it.

As for the Maloofs and developers paying for it - they'll make money somewhere or else they wouldn't be behind it... the Maloofs are kicking down $300M which is absolutely unheard of for stadium financing.

[john]

Mylo, what do you have against an arena? What do you do for excitement around here?

[mylo]

I absolutely want an arena. I think it would be a great asset for the community and those that wish to enjoy it.

If someone wants to build it, they should get a loan. If I wish to attend it, I will buy a ticket.

However, I think it is a gross waste of taxpayers dollars (or assets) to spend on entertainment. If people want to be entertained, then pay for it.

If not, rely on government for the core services which we *need* them and they are tasked to provide. I see nowhere in the Bill of Rights a chapter on an entitlement to "socially funded entertainment".

Especially in a bad economic climate, I can't begin to comprehend why we would throw away (hundreds of?) millions of dollars in tax payer owned real estate for stupid-arse Basketball, when government can't even meet a single one of the basic services they should be providing (health, education, human services, military, etc.)

I understand the argument of "investment in the community", but I think dealing with existing failing small business, homelessness, and joblessness would have far greater and immediate impact than contributing to the profit of an entertainment conglomerate.

Please note; I am most angry about this fabulous "new plan" because of it's sneaky nature. We couldn't take directly from taxes, so let's take taxpayer assets and imply that it's "Free".

[john]

Mylo, the taxpayers won't pay for it. They've screamed 1,000 times no.

I'm not sure how you think they are "taking" taxpayer assets. Do you not think a new fairgrounds will be an asset to the state? Do you not think a $600M arena will bring major events like the NCAA Final Four, U2, hockey, etc. and pump major dollars in to the local economy? Do you know what a $600M arena will do to kick-start development of the railyards? A lot.

I'll tell you what, if this fails - the Kings will leave (guaranteed - if $300M isn't an owner investing in the city, I don't know what is), we end up with an old arena which cannot attract major events anymore, Cal Expo will remain in need of an overhaul, and the railyards will take 30 years to fully develop.

The taxpayers aren't paying squat. Paying "assets"? The asset is simply moving to Natomas.

[mylo]

See, you fell for it. They're not taking cash, so you think it's free.

The asset is not "moving to Natomas", the asset is giving AWAY Natomas!

Let's do some math shall we?

The state believes that trading CalExpo for Arco is a good deal. That must mean that Arco is worth more than CalExpo, yes? I don't see why they would take a deal, that requires additional capital improvement, at a loss, with no budget. They're making money on it.

So, how much is CalExpo being sold to the developers for? After we trade Arco for CalExpo, this is the money (asset) we're left with. Don't forget that taxpayer owned Arco was worth more (see above), so we're already losing money and we haven't even mentioned the Maloofs.

Then we give this money away, for free, for 30 years!

I wish we had the real numbers, but let's say CalExpo is worth $x, so Arco is worth $x+$y ($y being the benefit that makes the State want it).

Why not be honest and simply create a new tax and charge the taxpayers $x+$y and give it to the Maloofs so they can build their new stadium and we keep our real estate asset? Oh yeah, the people voted that down.

So, why sell $x and give away $y to "fund" (see also: give to) the Maloofs railyard development against the taxpayers will?

This is simply shell games using Real Estate to create an illusion of free money. If you believe this, then I'll trade you your house for my car and I'll even give you a free cruise! Just think of it, free cruise!

[Jolene]

...I'll trade you your house for my car and I'll even give you a free cruise! Just think of it, free cruise!

That was a lot of words, but I saw this part! I'll take it!!!

(Completely tongue in cheek. I did actually read the entire thread.)

[mylo]

That was a lot of words, but I saw this part! I'll take it!!!

(Completely tongue in cheek. I did actually read the entire thread.)

Inside cabin only, must travel Mon-Thu November timeframe. Blackout dates apply. Oh, and I forgot to mention that you have to BUY A FREAKIN TICKET TO GET IN THE PLACE even though I said it was free. Thank you for enjoying Maloof Vacations. 2 drink minimum, $12/per + tip, gratuity, and convenience fee.

[MaxineR]

See, you fell for it. They're not taking cash, so you think it's free.

The asset is not "moving to Natomas", the asset is giving AWAY Natomas!

Let's do some math shall we?

The state believes that trading CalExpo for Arco is a good deal. That must mean that Arco is worth more than CalExpo, yes? I don't see why they would take a deal, that requires additional capital improvement, at a loss, with no budget. They're making money on it.

So, how much is CalExpo being sold to the developers for? After we trade Arco for CalExpo, this is the money (asset) we're left with. Don't forget that taxpayer owned Arco was worth more (see above), so we're already losing money and we haven't even mentioned the Maloofs.

Then we give this money away, for free, for 30 years!

I wish we had the real numbers, but let's say CalExpo is worth $x, so Arco is worth $x+$y ($y being the benefit that makes the State want it).

Why not be honest and simply create a new tax and charge the taxpayers $x+$y and give it to the Maloofs so they can build their new stadium and keep our real estate asset? Oh yeah, the people voted that down.

So, why sell $x and give away $y to "fund" (see also: give to) the Maloofs railyard development against the taxpayers will?

This is simply shell games using Real Estate to create an illusion of free money. If you believe this, then I'll trade you your house for my car and I'll even give you a free cruise! Just think of it, free cruise!

Mylo, I see it the way you do and feel it's a shell game as well.

But, for sports fans who want this sort of high end entertainment (the tickets will cost far more, you can count on it!) they only see what they want....a new sports arena.

The claims of more jobs, will only happen in the building faze, and then there will be as many jobs as we had before. But who will pay for the new fairgrounds? My guess is the tax payers.

The Maloofs have a ton of money and can well afford what they are pitching in, and will have a ton left over. But, the types like the Maloofs, that deal in this sort of thing have a motto....."Never invest your own money in something you hope to make money on. Get others to pay for it." So it's unheard of that people like this pitch in their own money? Well, it's unheard of that anyone would want to focus investments on high end entertainment when unemployment is so high.

The one way this could fail is the same reason that Cal Expo has lost money for the last few years.....people don't have the money for the high priced tickets and the high priced parking. And I've noticed the tickets for the Kings games have gone down.

Has anyone noticed how the Home and Garden show was FREE ADMISSION this year?????? Gee, I wonder why!

[mylo]

Paid for. $300M by Maloofs, $300M by investors, the rest through proceeds from sale of public lands.
Backed by NBA & Maloofs, rejected by voters.

FTFY.