71 replies to this topic

[john]

http://www.fox40.com...content=Twitter

So, back in the day, there was a mining community known by "(censored) Hill". (The board may edit the name). Anyway, the cemetery was relocated when the Dam was built; it referenced the community name at the time. A group is trying to get the headstones changed.

The million dollar question - do we leave it as a reference to the historical time, or change it because we feel it's offensive?

[chris v]

Leave it. Its not pretty, but it is history. No different than removing it from old books.

[DavidH]

The million dollar question - do we leave it as a reference to the historical time, or change it because we feel it's offensive?

I'd say remove it if were used an adjective to describe the deceased but since it's in reference to a place by its then "official" name, I'm a bit more hestitant to say it should be removed. The word is detinitely offensive in the 21st century but it's important from a historical perspective so we (and those that follow us) can remember and learn from what those folks went through and how they were treated so poorly.

Sanitizing history does nothing other than wash it away and, as George Santayana penned in 1905, "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

[The Average Joe]

Leave it.

[Bill Z]

Leave it.

I'm inclined to disagree and here is why. I would agree with you, David , & Chris if these were the original headstones, if they had names, etc. But these are not the original grave markers from the original graves. These are markers created during the construction of Folsom Dam when they relocated bones from one cemetary to their current location. They list "unknown moved from n-word hill". They're historical significance in my mind is worthless, they were a modern day creation at the time of the re-location (which I think may be almost a century newer than the bones they reside over), it's sad that this word was still in use when the bones were relocated, but in my mind, the markers have no historical value associated with the bones underneath. I also wouldn't remove the words from the headstones, I would destroy the headstones and replace them with something more telling of the history of the bones. Maybe a simple marker for each grave and a large stone and or plaque to tell as much as is known about the entire group of graves from that place.

[Bill Z]

Should we also change the name Negro Bar too?

Well, actually Negro Hill is what those that want to change it want to change it to.
I don't know what word they used back in the Gold Rush days to name that hill. If it was Negro as that was the spanish word for black, then I see nothing wrong with the naming it Negro again. My point is, the markers are not historically linked to the graves, so I see no reason to preserve them. Maybe I'm wrong, if the markers were the original markers from the graves and said "unknown N-word" died such and such year, then I would say that because it is the original headstone, it should be preserved. But I'm pretty sure the real history is, most or all of the graves were not marked with headstones, and the headstones are 1954-1955 creations which means IMO, they are not historically correct markers anyway for the grave, I see no reason to keep them. A 55 year old marker over 150 year old bones has no historical value in preservation IMO. That's my point.

[john]

I have a few old maps that reference the location. Negro Bar is not the original name, neither is Negro Hill.

[4thgenFolsomite]

there were at least three little communities here that were named for the black miner encampments established during the Gold Rush. Two used Negro and the other used the N word. When the federal government built the dam, they relocated all graves that would be inundated to the one cemetery now in reference. They used the place names then officially listed on federal maps. So the place name on the monument is accurate.

I have no opinion on them staying or going, but it should be clear that the monument erected in the 1950s was not a racist statement.

[Andrea V]

Leave it. Its not pretty, but it is history. No different than removing it from old books.

Agreed...

Let me guess, it is a buncha WHITE hippies who think it is MEAN... meh... it is history, even if we would not repeat it...

[Rickykicks]

It's a reminder of an ugly time. I personally think we shouldn't waste any state money on it,
just to save the feelings of some people.

[old soldier]

the legislature could pass a law making it a crime to use the word...that way those black comics could not use the word either. the fact no one is in favor, other than historical, is kind of a reminder of how our society has corrected something that was bad.

[Steve Heard]

I'm inclined to disagree and here is why. I would agree with you, David , & Chris if these were the original headstones, if they had names, etc. But these are not the original grave markers from the original graves. These are markers created during the construction of Folsom Dam when they relocated bones from one cemetary to their current location. They list "unknown moved from n-word hill". They're historical significance in my mind is worthless, they were a modern day creation at the time of the re-location.

I agree.

Hardly anyone will ever see those old grave markers, but yet highly popular rap stars like Kayne West use that word daily in the press and that's a-ok

Many black folks, from leaders to the man on the street have tried to get rappers, comics kids and ignoramuses to stop using the word, but to no avail. It's definitely not 'a-ok'.

Should we also change the name Negro Bar too?

Negro Bar WAS changed! Should it have been left as it was because that's what the locals called it (some still do)?

Agreed...

Let me guess, it is a buncha WHITE hippies who think it is MEAN... meh... it is history, even if we would not repeat it...

The news report says it was boy scouts. I can't say if they were white or hippies.

It's a reminder of an ugly time. I personally think we shouldn't waste any state money on it,
just to save the feelings of some people.

I don't recall any mention of public funds. Should people be allowed to waste their own money on it just to save the feelings of some people?

[Bill Z]

the legislature could pass a law making it a crime to use the word...that way those black comics could not use the word either. the fact no one is in favor, other than historical, is kind of a reminder of how our society has corrected something that was bad.

What ever happened to free speech?