28 replies to this topic

[tsukiji]

Hi,

I don't have a great audiophile system; it's probably not even low-end mainstream (at least not anymore). But it's all I've got for now.

I listen mostly to jazz/vocals and some classical (less of the latter since I don't have any well recorded CDs). I'm using a receiver (wish I could afford separates) and a single disk CD player attached to 2 speakers.

Question: the cd player has analog and optical outputs. My receiver will accept both. How do I tell which decoder is better and therefore decide which CD output to use? Is there some reference/test CD I can use?

Given my components (and my old ears), it may not make any difference. So this might be just academic. But I'd be interested in knowing how -- maybe one day, I'll be able to afford a nice stereo.

[stangage70]

Unless either component advertises special DAC components, it is probably a wash to which one is better. If you are not doing any signal processing in the receiver, it should not really matter. If there is processing, I would recommend the digital interconnect in general.

Why not try both with your favorite recordings and see which you like better? Better is probably subjective in this case.

I use my receivers Burr Brown DAC's.

[tsukiji]

Unless either component advertises special DAC components, it is probably a wash to which one is better. If you are not doing any signal processing in the receiver, it should not really matter. If there is processing, I would recommend the digital interconnect in general.

Why not try both with your favorite recordings and see which you like better? Better is probably subjective in this case.

I use my receivers Burr Brown DAC's.

My components are so old that I don't remember if they advertised special DAC's. Probably not since they aren't high end components. So, you're probably right, it may be a wash. On the other hand, I was thinking that differences might be larger in lower end components than in higher end components (ie - diminishing returns at the upper end).

I tried a few of my favorites -- it was inconclusive. Oddly, some CD's sounded better one way or the other, other CD's were the opposite. And some CD's, it made no difference.

One odd thing: on one CD (Norah Jones in this case), the quality of the sound seemed similar but the soundstage seemed different. Using analog outs, her voice seemed one place and quite displaced from the sound of the guitar (which I believe she is playing). But the digital out placed the voice and guitar in reasonable proximity. Odd?

With my setup, it's probably a wash. Just asking more out of curiosity, perhaps someday I will have components where it may make a difference -- if I can find some good quality used units cheap.

[stangage70]

Even with higher end parts, the results can be inconclusive...

While not really a "high end" device, the Onkyo TX-SR608 is one that offers some decent specs at a reasonable price (~$350). This one features Burr Brown DAC's, which is usually not the case for components in this price range. It is also THX Select2 Plus, which suggests clean and powerful performance. Though this unit is really geared more towards home-theater vs. stereo music.
http://www.us.onkyo....ss=Receiver&p=f

The TX-NR609 is also just announced. Sounds nice, but I doubt you will find it as cheaply as you can get a 608 right now.

As long as you enjoy the experience, it probably doesn't matter which equipment you use.

[Dave Burrell]

Hi,

I don't have a great audiophile system; it's probably not even low-end mainstream (at least not anymore). But it's all I've got for now.

I listen mostly to jazz/vocals and some classical (less of the latter since I don't have any well recorded CDs). I'm using a receiver (wish I could afford separates) and a single disk CD player attached to 2 speakers.

Question: the cd player has analog and optical outputs. My receiver will accept both. How do I tell which decoder is better and therefore decide which CD output to use? Is there some reference/test CD I can use?

Given my components (and my old ears), it may not make any difference. So this might be just academic. But I'd be interested in knowing how -- maybe one day, I'll be able to afford a nice stereo.

I've got a similar setup, heck some of my audio gear is even older then my kids. I've also got the same connectivity on my CD player and tested both types and didn't notice any difference via my Sony speakers... I figure it's a mediocre setup and that's about as good as it's gonna get. I mostly play my music now via itunes on my computer that is connected to a set of Bose speakers - sounds great.

[tsukiji]

Even with higher end parts, the results can be inconclusive...

While not really a "high end" device, the Onkyo TX-SR608 is one that offers some decent specs at a reasonable price (~$350). This one features Burr Brown DAC's, which is usually not the case for components in this price range. It is also THX Select2 Plus, which suggests clean and powerful performance. Though this unit is really geared more towards home-theater vs. stereo music.
http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR608&class=Receiver&p=f

The TX-NR609 is also just announced. Sounds nice, but I doubt you will find it as cheaply as you can get a 608 right now.

As long as you enjoy the experience, it probably doesn't matter which equipment you use.

Hey, thanks for all your expert opinions. It's appreciated. If you could indulge me a little more

I'm currently using a Nak AV8 paired with a Sony X111ES over KEF Q/C series speakers. The Nak and Sony decoders seem about parity (was hoping there would be a cheap solution here).

So, I'm thinking about upgrading the receiver (speakers are not viable right now, my old KEFs will have to do for now). Upgrading the receiver results in a unit I can I use with a spare TV/DVD player. Upgrading the CD players results in a unit I can't use. But I'll reconsider this if the best path is to upgrade the CD player; but I'm thinking if I can get a higher end receiver with a good decoder, then that's the best approach. I can't afford low-end separates (at least not ones I like).

$350 is too high for me. So, first at bat right now is a used Marantz SR7000. Not especially averse to Denon, HK, Onkyo, Yamaha but Denon seems to have QA issues and the latter three haven't impressed me much in the distant past (of course, it may be a different story now).

Any thoughts on this used Marantz, especially relative to my Nak?

[tsukiji]

I've got a similar setup, heck some of my audio gear is even older then my kids. I've also got the same connectivity on my CD player and tested both types and didn't notice any difference via my Sony speakers... I figure it's a mediocre setup and that's about as good as it's gonna get. I mostly play my music now via itunes on my computer that is connected to a set of Bose speakers - sounds great.

Yea, my components are almost as old as I am I have neither the funds nor the ears to appreciate high end units. But I would like to incrementally improve upon my current set up. A little more accuracy, slightly better soundstage and perhaps a little more powerful (I think my current receiver is straining a bit w/ my 4ohm KEFs at "listening" volumes -- not blowing down the walls but certainly driven above conversation voice levels .

[BIG PAKO]

Even with higher end parts, the results can be inconclusive...

While not really a "high end" device, the Onkyo TX-SR608 is one that offers some decent specs at a reasonable price (~$350). This one features Burr Brown DAC's, which is usually not the case for components in this price range. It is also THX Select2 Plus, which suggests clean and powerful performance. Though this unit is really geared more towards home-theater vs. stereo music.
http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR608&class=Receiver&p=f

The TX-NR609 is also just announced. Sounds nice, but I doubt you will find it as cheaply as you can get a 608 right now.

As long as you enjoy the experience, it probably doesn't matter which equipment you use.

Onkyo rocks! ....I have an old Onkyo TX-SR504 with Infinity speakers and the sound is exceptional... ...Bass, Jazz, Vocals... ....anyTing you want!

[tsukiji]

Onkyo rocks! ....I have an old Onkyo TX-SR504 with Infinity speakers and the sound is exceptional... ...Bass, Jazz, Vocals... ....anyTing you want!

How about TX-SR701; I found a used one available? I also found an SR805 which sounds nice on paper.

I haven't heard an Onkyo in a long time -- it didn't leave an impression on me before. Can you compare it to something I might know? A HK unit? Yamaha? Adcom? NAD?

So, my top choices now are the Marantz SR7000, or the Onkyo SR701 or SR805....

[stangage70]

How about TX-SR701; I found a used one available? I also found an SR805 which sounds nice on paper.

I haven't heard an Onkyo in a long time -- it didn't leave an impression on me before. Can you compare it to something I might know? A HK unit? Yamaha? Adcom? NAD?

So, my top choices now are the Marantz SR7000, or the Onkyo SR701 or SR805....

I use a TX-SR805 and enjoy it greatly. If that is in your budget, I recommend one. It is a big, heavy beast though at 51 lbs. The amplifier design runs warm, but provides huge amounts of current to torture your speakers. It also features nice DAC's.

I replaced a Parasound amp with this, and found it to be comparable.

I don't know much about the SR7000, but the SR701 sounds less suitable than the SR805.

Enjoy...

[tsukiji]

I use a TX-SR805 and enjoy it greatly. If that is in your budget, I recommend one. It is a big, heavy beast though at 51 lbs. The amplifier design runs warm, but provides huge amounts of current to torture your speakers. It also features nice DAC's.

I replaced a Parasound amp with this, and found it to be comparable.

I don't know much about the SR7000, but the SR701 sounds less suitable than the SR805.

Enjoy...

Thanks for the input. I've heard good things about the musicality of Marantz products but haven't not heard one recently. I'll drop the SR701. I'll pursue the SR805 (it also sounds very nice on paper and it's Made in Japan as far as I can tell - good thing from my POV) but still consider the SR7000.

[rpo]

Thanks for the input. I've heard good things about the musicality of Marantz products but haven't not heard one recently. I'll drop the SR701. I'll pursue the SR805 (it also sounds very nice on paper and it's Made in Japan as far as I can tell - good thing from my POV) but still consider the SR7000.

I have the Marantz SR7000 along with their slim design 7.1 unit (cannot remember the model). They are phenomenal. My first receiver was a Marantz from the 1960's that lasted until about 2000. I would not buy anything else at this point.

From reading many reviews and using my own ears, Marantz receivers deliver a somewhat "warmer" sound compared to Denon and Onkyo all using the same speakers.

[Darth Lefty]

I find my problem with my 9-year-old receiver is that it is becoming obsolete. No HDMI, for example, which means I can't plug my laptop into it and get surround sound and video out. The sound seems fine to me. But I'm not a conny-soor.

[stangage70]

From reading many reviews and using my own ears, Marantz receivers deliver a somewhat "warmer" sound compared to Denon and Onkyo all using the same speakers.

Some people label the Onkyo and Denon units as being a bit sterile. I consider it more a feature of their accuracy.

Of course each has numerous units in their line of products, not all of which sound the same...

Thanks for the input. I've heard good things about the musicality of Marantz products but haven't not heard one recently. I'll drop the SR701. I'll pursue the SR805 (it also sounds very nice on paper and it's Made in Japan as far as I can tell - good thing from my POV) but still consider the SR7000.

My TX-SR805 is indeed made in Japan, however some are made in Malaysia.

Here is a good review of this unit:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_3/onkyo-tx-sr805-receiver-9-2006-part-1.html

[tsukiji]

My TX-SR805 is indeed made in Japan, however some are made in Malaysia.

Here is a good review of this unit:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_3/onkyo-tx-sr805-receiver-9-2006-part-1.html

Good to know. I'll confirm that this unit is MiJ before purchasing.

Slight side track: all this research and I've come across a standard I've heard about not familiar with -- what's going on DVD-A and SACD? If these are still relevant technologies, do I need a receiver that specifically supports them? Or is this only implemented in the CD/DVD player and any receiver is fine (ie - even the SR805)?

EDIT: Ugggh. Never mind. Sounds like I need HDMI 1.2 or higher to connect the DVD/SACD player to the receiver (or use a handful of analog cables - not palatable). Still, the question remains -- if I have a receiver that supports HDMI 1.2 or higher (DSD), is that sufficient to play DVDA/SACD? Or do I need to look for specific decoder / feature in the receiver as well?

Probably academic for now but might be good to know in a toss-up between two receivers.