14 replies to this topic

[smartgavel]

The PTO is putting on an online auction to raise money for Blanche Sprentz Elementary school here in Folsom. The auction starts at 6:00 pm on Thursday, February 16th and lasts for three hours. We will be auctioning off various electronic items (Kindle Fire, Nintendo 3DS, GPS unit...) gift cards and more. All the money raised by the PTO goes right back to the school. The money goes to help fund field trips and other events at the school (DaVinci Days, Spruce up Sprentz, etc...)

Please check it out and support our fundraiser. The auction will be hosted on www.smartgavel.com.

[smartgavel]

The PTO is putting on an online auction to raise money for Blanche Sprentz Elementary school here in Folsom. The auction starts at 6:00 pm on Thursday, February 16th and lasts for three hours. We will be auctioning off various electronic items (Kindle Fire, Nintendo 3DS, GPS unit...) gift cards and more. All the money raised by the PTO goes right back to the school. The money goes to help fund field trips and other events at the school (DaVinci Days, Spruce up Sprentz, etc...)

Please check it out and support our fundraiser. The auction will be hosted on www.smartgavel.com.

We have added three new items, two teachers (Mrs. Peterson and Mrs. Hurlimann) have graciously agreed to donate a dinner with themselves and a student. We have also added a family photo package by a local photographer. All of these items will sell at 80-90% off their retail price. This is a brand new way to do fundraising, even if you are not affiliated with the school, it is still a fun way to support your community. Donations start for as little as $8. If you are a local business or have some items you want to donate please contact us at info @ smartgavel.com, or call me - 916-521-9997.

Thanks so much!

[jenjen]

Interesting idea. After looking at the website I still have a couple of questions. If I buy a bid package, and don't win any items, do I get my money back?

It says buy a bid package - then bid - then pay for items. So what does the bid package get me? Is it worth what I pay or just a means to make as many bids as I want.

Can you provide me an example of how it would work. Say I want to bid on a kindle and want to pay up to $100, do I have to buy a $100 bid package?

I do fundraisers for my church, so I'm interesting in finding out more.

Thanks

[smartgavel]

Hi JenJen, (sorry for the novel)

Blanche Sprentz Elementary has a little lower average family income than most of the other schools in the district. They are always in need of funds for a Librarian, after school reading programs, computer labs, etc... We designed this auction to make it fun and appeal to a wide variety of people to help them and others like them to raise money. So... with that in mind here are your answers.

If I buy a bid package, and don't win any items, do I get my money back?

No. The money raised from selling the bids and items goes to the group, in this case Blanche Sprentz Elemenetary PTO.

So what does the bid package get me?

Our auction is different from something like EBAY in a few different ways. One way is you must pay everytime you bid (I'll explan the others below). This is why it makes for a great fundraiser.

Can you provide me an example of how it would work. Say I want to bid on a kindle and want to pay up to $100, do I have to buy a $100 bid package?

Here is an example, you would buy any bid package (starting at $8 all the way up to $99) and then bid on an item. In our example lets say you place a bid on the Kindle Fire. With our auction, you don't get to say how much your bidding. It is simply $0.01 more than the previous bid. If the previous bid was $2.38, your bid would be $2.39. If someone bid after you, theirs would be $2.40. Whoever bids last wins. The only other twist is, if a bid is placed in the last 12 seconds then the auction end time is extended by 12 seconds. So, if you have bid $2.39 for the Kindle and it is supposed to end at 8:30:00 pm and no one else bids in the last 12 seconds then you win. If someone bids $2.40 within the last 12 seconds, then the new end time would be 8:30:12 pm.

We are going to have an early bird auction on Monday 2/13 @ 6:00 pm. We will be auctioning off a few items to show people how it works. The bidding will be free. You'll just have to pay for the item if you win. Check it and tell your friends, thanks Smart Gavel.

Also, if your interested I would be more than willing to answer any other questions you have. Just contact me, or reply.

[FolsomEJ]

If someone bids $2.40 within the last 12 seconds, then the new end time would be 8:30:12 pm.

If that was the winning bid, the seller would take $289.20 for the item (assuming bids started at .01.) The winning bid was $2.40, but $286.80 was collected from people who received nothing in return. 240 bids were placed, which it appears cost between .67 and .86 per bid. So, the final total is $447 to $493 for an item, worth $199.

If the earlier bids only pay for the bid, and not the amount bid, the price would be $160-$206.

(This is from your theoretical example, so it may not be accurate.)

An auction method that only Ponzi could love.

I get that it is for Charity, however this can be a boon for the sellers and a bust for the bidders. Yeah, it is a little here, a little there...but it is still a ripoff.

http://www.staysafeonline.org/blog/new-frontier-shady-online-gambling-penny-auction

...with the final result generally being: (1) the consumer drops out of the auction having lost the money spent on the bids or (2) the consumer stays in the auction and ends up paying much more than he or she would have ordinarily to purchase the item. As you can see, either way, the owner of the website is the only one who really benefits.

[FolsomEJ]

To be clear: I am not trying to hurt the Charity here. I am trying to hurt processes that prey on the innocent or inexperienced. That is exactly what this is trying to do. For a good cause. In a bad way.

[smartgavel]

Hello FolsomEJ,

You are correct that the opportunity to raise money with this auction format is great (i.e. if you can get a good amount of people participating, the charity group has the potential to make thousands of dollars vs. hundreds they might typically make with a cookie dough selling event). Your math is a little off. In my above example if the item sold for $2.40 (which we would hope to get a lot more for it) would mean 240 bids were used and @ $0.80 per bid = $192. None the less, this is how we raise money. For a small donation, that goes to help out the group (in this case Folsom Elementary school kids) you have a chance to win an item at a really low price. Of course, you do need to factor in whatever you spend on bids for that item in addition to the cost you pay for it.

I would like to address two of your accusations directly though.

I am trying to hurt processes that prey on the innocent or inexperienced. That is exactly what this is trying to do. For a good cause. In a bad way.

I have lived in Folsom for almost 10 years, my kids go to this school. We are NOT preying on the innocent or inexperienced. We have designed our auction to raise money in a new and fun way. Our website has tutorials on how it works, we are having an "Early Bird" auction, with free bidding, three days before the event so everyone can see it in action. We are very open about all the details.

You say that it is a "ripoff." It is true that you may spend money on bids for items that you do not win. However I submit to you that this is a far better fundraiser (IMO) than selling overpriced giftwrap, or getting stuck buying $20 worth of flavored popcorn. With this fundraiser, the kids don't have to go door to door, you don't have take the box of candy bars to work. Additionally, with the online format of our fundraiser, family and friends from out of the area can participate more easily. I would much sooner spend my money on a chance to win something cool and know that even if I don't win the item, the money is going for a good cause. I think we have created a fun way to raise money.

In our case, I think your criticism is misplaced.

[FolsomEJ]

You are correct - my judgment of "ripoff" was inappropriate, since I did not have all the facts necessary to make that conclusion.

Two questions:
1) What is the total retail value of items that will be offered for bidding?
2) What is the total number of bids that will be sold?

Bonus question:
What percentage of the revenue will be retained by the auctioneer (is that you?)

I hate the popcorn and paper fund-raising too. This is creative. However, I believe it relies more on trickery than an appeal for fund-raising. The penny auction concept is filled with fraud and abuse, but it is also simply bad math on its own, even before the cheats jump in.

If you know the number of bids purchased, you can set your "profit" to any amount you want by controlling the quantity of items you offer (like Kindle Fire) that you have to buy. The donations are just more gravy too. Once purchased, all those bids are used against other bidders for the same product. The Math Wins.

For each Kindle Fire ($199) you offer, you need to attract 250 bids at 0.80 a bid to break even. If you sell 10000 bids (at a rate of .80/bid) you could sell 20 Kindle Fires at a winning price of $5. $5.00 end bid consumes 500 bids, 20 items consumes the 10,000 bids sold. Cost of goods: 20x$199 = $4,000. Bids sales: 10000 x $.80 = $8000. Profit $4000.

If you offer 19 items, the result is $5.26 end price, profit $4219.
If you offer 18 items, the result is $5.56 end price, profit $4418.

You control the profit result by matching what you want to earn with the number of bids sold and items offered. People will spend out the bids trying to win (since left over bids are worthless) and the price will escalate. To sell 10,000 bids, you'll probably have to find 200 people. So, 180 people walk away with nothing.

The "trick" is that you got 180 people enticed with a "chance of winning" that they can't calculate easily.

My answer: skip the tricks and ask for the cash. Cutout the middleman too.

[FolsomEJ]

One more thing - I ignored the profit from the winning bid.

Add 20 x $5 or $100. Not really worth talking about.

The money is made on 499 losing bids, not the one winning bid. This is the reason this is a bad deal for all participants. (Or all but one, if you want to look at it that way.)

Headline: Winner gets $199 Kindle for $5
Reality: 499 losers paid .80 to be disappointed

[smartgavel]

Hi FolsomEJ,

We have over $1,200 in prizes that we will be auctioning off. There is a a Kindle Fire, Nintendo 3DS, $100 gift card to Target, Tom-Tom GPS unit and more. You can see all the items now on the auction website.

You've asked how many bids will be sold, and honestly we are trying to sell as many as possible. The more bids sold, the more money gets raised for the school. Any unused bids can be used for the next auction we do for another group/charity.

Your statement that everyone who doesn't win will leave disappointed, ignores the common goal of those who are participating which is to raise money for our kids school.

I know that asking for cash has been tried at Blanche Sprentz in the past, and although they raised some money it simply wasn't enough. We have tried to create a fun and entertaining way to help groups in our community raise money.

[Eliza]

The PTO is putting on an online auction to raise money for Blanche Sprentz Elementary school here in Folsom. The auction starts at 6:00 pm on Thursday, February 16th and lasts for three hours. We will be auctioning off various electronic items (Kindle Fire, Nintendo 3DS, GPS unit...) gift cards and more. All the money raised by the PTO goes right back to the school. The money goes to help fund field trips and other events at the school (DaVinci Days, Spruce up Sprentz, etc...)

Please check it out and support our fundraiser. The auction will be hosted on www.smartgavel.com.

[Eliza]

I think an online auction is a great idea for fund raising and the fact that Smartgavel is giving back so much to the school is superb! Having a child and being an active parent in the community myself, I have participated in numerous fund raising events. I have gone to restaurants for a very simple inexpensive dinner where the restaurant offered only 5% or 10% back to the school, sold gift wrapping paper, other small gifts once again with a tiny % going back to our school so this is a more generous offer.
Personally I like the idea of not having to ask my friends and neighbors to buy things by going door to door. I can easily get online and while having fun I can contribute.
I have also participated in other auctions raising funds for a church and for a school. My goal was always to raise funds for the non-profit organization I am interested in. Scrutinizing the vendor, whether it's a chain restaurant, a huge corporation offering gift wrap paper and small gifts or an online auction company defeats the purpose of giving back to the non-profit organization we want to support and in this case with our Blanche Sprentz elementary school.Let's all support our school while having fun!

[FolsomEJ]

Scrutinizing the vendor, whether it's a chain restaurant, a huge corporation offering gift wrap paper and small gifts or an online auction company defeats the purpose of giving back to the non-profit organization we want to support and in this case with our Blanche Sprentz elementary school.Let's all support our school while having fun!

I disagree. Scrutiny and transparency of costs is *exactly* what we should be seeking if we care about the charity or non-profit. Overhead costs have not been revealed. We can not be informed consumers or contributors here.

I've made my case. I hope that people donate directly, instead of participating in this approach. Again, good luck to the school and the PTA in the efforts to find funding.

[smartgavel]

Hi Everyone,

Tonight (Thursday 2/16) is our auction night. It starts at 6 pm on www.SmartGavel.com. We are encouraging people to donate some money with a chance to win some prizes.

I want to let you know of a few gracious companies here in Folsom that have donated some items for the auction. They are: Justin Buettner Photography, Sutter Street Grill, and Cold Stone Creamery in Folsom.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. Please check out the auction, I think you will find it is a fun way to raise money. You can get into the action for as little as $8.

[FolsomEJ]

Here's one extreme current article about penny auctions. Not content to make money one the auction itself, this Ponzi operator went further and sold shares in the operation. Apparently $800M in shares. The news article reminded me of this forum posting last year.

http://www.usatoday....c-town/2037975/

People should be highly suspicious of any MLM. We should also be wary of any charity that obscures its costs.

FWIW, I had not revisited this post or this vendor in over a year, but I see that website is completely down. The FaceBook profile appears abandoned. Again, I am not judging SmartGavel or the Principal(s) - I am just pointing out how we should be cautious and expect details when being asked for charitable contributions.

Here's a current link from StaySafeOnline: http://staysafeonlin...e-penny-auction