22 replies to this topic

[tsukiji]

Hi,

This is not about the technical / functional merits of one type of device over another.

Some of us would likely say that we wouldn't buy a product that funded terrorism. Or perhaps organized crime.

But how do we feel about buying products that are made under questionable labor practices? Or doing something just because we can when we know it probably isn't right.

Do we care? Or do we allow these things to affect our behavior? This is not a new story. But it's written in a way that hits home for me.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/apple-sweatshop-problem-16-hour-days-70-cents-172800495.html?l=1

... The bottom line is that iPhones and iPads cost what they do because they are built using labor practices that would be illegal in this country — because people in this country consider those practices grossly unfair.

That's not a value judgment. It's a fact.

So, next time you pick up your iPhone or iPad, ask yourself how you feel about that.

[rpo]

I have read articles that calculated Apple could easily make all of their products in the USA and still be profitable.....

[MurphysLaw]

I think it is disgusting. There needs to be regulations even for companies that outsource their work in that they must treat workers humanly. I was watching a news segment the apple situation how their are enough suicide rates there that companies put a net to catch people that fall off buildings.

I'm surprised that there are no churches that talk about this sort of thing. I've been reading to many times on the news about how they are against "gay marriages and everything else" I would like to see someone with some followers get out and be a crusader for outsourced factory workers.

[Darth Lefty]

Back in college I knew some people who were in an anti-sweatshop group. It was a valid concern but it bugged me how they aligned themselves directly with the "old labor" people. At a certain level, not very far above their heads, it became about, not safe labor and fair wages for Vietnamese kids, but rather labor protectionism for American unions. It was a bait and switch.

Apple's iPhone factory is pretty gruesome.

[caligirlz]

I'm surprised that there are no churches that talk about this sort of thing. I've been reading to many times on the news about how they are against "gay marriages and everything else" I would like to see someone with some followers get out and be a crusader for outsourced factory workers.

The churches true mission is to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ, not take on every social issue. However, feeding the hungry, taking care of the poor & the widowed, as discussed in the bible, sometimes involves addressing social issues.

[old soldier]

look at it this way if these fancy phones were made in the usa with union labor, they would cost about $3000. if this was the case not a lot of folks would have them and therefore our roads would be safer cause they wouldn't be in the hands of drivers who would be paying attention to the road.

[tsukiji]

I think I've also read (article in the NYT a couple of days ago?) that Apple could still be reasonably profitable if manufacturing was done here -- not grossly profitable as it is w/ manufacturing in China. But still respectably profitable. I think the sway was more because Chinese labor could be woken up at 3am on Saturday night for an emergency project whereas the rest of the world might reasonably complain a bit.

http://www.nytimes.c...ss.html?_r=1

I'm averse to buying products made in China, especially food stuffs but also electronics, clothes, etc. Primarily for cultural reasons (I'm against their IP polices (or lack thereof) and complete disregard for attention to quality of design and manufacture). But one sympathizes with situations like the Foxconn factory employees.

[MurphysLaw]

The churches true mission is to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ, not take on every social issue. However, feeding the hungry, taking care of the poor & the widowed, as discussed in the bible, sometimes involves addressing social issues.

Like churches only talk about feeding the hungry and spreading the word? I've seen churches talk about gay marriage, abortion, divorce, anything they want. All they do is apply a bible quote to their issue. See I can do it right now:

"And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’"

[Harold]

look at it this way if these fancy phones were made in the usa with union labor, they would cost about $3000. if this was the case not a lot of folks would have them and therefore our roads would be safer cause they wouldn't be in the hands of drivers who would be paying attention to the road.

Actually, with micro-miniturization of the circuits required in your cell-phone, >99% of the assembly is by automated machinery. Yes, the labor would cost more in the USA, but it wouldn't be that much more expensive.

[folsombound]

I'm not going to try to justify anything but I have to wonder what those people would be doing if there were no cell phones or iPads or whatever to manufacture? Planting rice in rice paddies?? I'm not at all sure America can save the world.

I can't avoid buying Chinese or Asian made goods in too many instances but where I can I have started to look for and buy American even if it costs more.

[rpo]

I think the true question is:

If there were an android phone manufacturer, for example, that made their products solely in the United States, would you be more inclined to purchase that phone vs another manufacturer?

[Harold]

I think the true question is:

If there were an android phone manufacturer, for example, that made their products solely in the United States, would you be more inclined to purchase that phone vs another manufacturer?

Hmm.

My first phone was a Samsung, pretty sure that was made in South Korea, not China.

My next phone was an Ericcson, Swedish company, no idea where it was manufactured, maybe Sweden, maybe not.

My 3rd phone was a Nokia, I expect it was manufactured in Finland, but who knows, maybe they had it made in China.

My current phone is a Motorola, USA company, don't know where it was manufactured, but Motorola does have a lot of manufacturing plants in the USA, I just don't know if their cell phones are made here or not.

Problem is, we are a highly consumer oriented society that likes to buy disposable items at low cost and the vast majority of that kind of crap get's built off-shore. If you want to buy a quality product that is made to last and you are willing to pay for it, buy a chopper from Orange County Choppers, buy a Patriot missle from Raytheon, buy a John Deere tractor.

You want a cheap little USA flag to wave on the 4th of July, it's probably made in China, want a quality hand-sewn canvas flag with embroidered stars (not a died printed piece of nylon) to fly on your flag pole, good news, they are made in America.

[nomad]

If you saw what AAPL did for profit this last quarter you now realize they'll never change the way they do biz to be "less profitable" and more socially acceptable. As if anybody would bash Apple ever?

That one company is essentially richer than Greece and the little kids polishing the glass at the iphone factory have no idea.