24 replies to this topic

[The Average Joe]

I can't believe no one has commented on this yet as it is a week old. Obama gave a speech and said:

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.”

What an asshat. So let me get this straight, the person who got educated, saved their money, invested in their idea, worked hard to surmount the stacks of government rules and regs, grew their idea into a profitable enterprise didn't build it?
I suppose that "somebody else" would pay off the debt the entrepreneur incurred had he failed. I suppose somebody else worked long hours sacrificing comforts and family along the way. I suppose somebody else made the hard choices when things got tight. I suppose somebody else is entitled to the fruits of the business owners labors. Oh wait, Obama believes that last one.
Somebody invested in roads and bridges? No kidding. Where do you think the (mostly local) taxes came from? The same people who are building their business ALREADY PAID "their share" of taxes for the infrastructure. EVERYONE is entitled to use that same infrastructure to develop their own business. Business owners aren't "stealing" use of roads and bridges. What a freaking moron.
Somebody else made that happen? Hey dipstick, who do you think built the road building machinery? Who do you think built the steel mills for the bridges? WHo do you think laid the fiber optic for the internet? Private companies, that's who.
Good gawd. The most anti-business President in history, and we wonder why we're still in recession...
Lord help us if he gets reelected...

[nomad]

I can't believe no one has commented on this yet as it is a week old. Obama gave a speech and said:

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.”

What an asshat. So let me get this straight, the person who got educated, saved their money, invested in their idea, worked hard to surmount the stacks of government rules and regs, grew their idea into a profitable enterprise didn't build it?
I suppose that "somebody else" would pay off the debt the entrepreneur incurred had he failed. I suppose somebody else worked long hours sacrificing comforts and family along the way. I suppose somebody else made the hard choices when things got tight. I suppose somebody else is entitled to the fruits of the business owners labors. Oh wait, Obama believes that last one.
Somebody invested in roads and bridges? No kidding. Where do you think the (mostly local) taxes came from? The same people who are building their business ALREADY PAID "their share" of taxes for the infrastructure. EVERYONE is entitled to use that same infrastructure to develop their own business. Business owners aren't "stealing" use of roads and bridges. What a freaking moron.
Somebody else made that happen? Hey dipstick, who do you think built the road building machinery? Who do you think built the steel mills for the bridges? WHo do you think laid the fiber optic for the internet? Private companies, that's who.
Good gawd. The most anti-business President in history, and we wonder why we're still in recession...
Lord help us if he gets reelected...

This is what happens when the Prez gets off the teleprompter. He spews garbage.

[The Average Joe]

Garbage he believes...

[UncleVinny]

I think this whole tempest in a teapot issue can be resolved by adding one word:

If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that ALONE.

And of course he has a point there.

Take any business and try to start it in a 3rd-world country like Yemen or Somalia, and it would not be a success. It's a success in the US because we have good roads and a transportation system. We have police protections and infrastructure for utilities
and education.

The point is, Obama wants those businesses to help PAY for those roads, protections,
infrastructure, and educational systems, instead of secreting away the profits
in untaxable off-shore accounts.

[ducky]

I think this whole tempest in a teapot issue can be resolved by adding one word:

If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that ALONE.

And of course he has a point there.

Take any business and try to start it in a 3rd-world country like Yemen or Somalia, and it would not be a success. It's a success in the US because we have good roads and a transportation system. We have police protections and infrastructure for utilities
and education.

The point is, Obama wants those businesses to help PAY for those roads, protections,
infrastructure, and educational systems, instead of secreting away the profits
in untaxable off-shore accounts.

He really doesn't have a point, Vinny.
If all businesses really didn't pay taxes there would be no roads, police protection, infrastructure, public education, or utilities. Yes, individuals pay income taxes and property taxes, but that would be kind of hard without a job by either creating their own business or working for someone else's company. The only other option would be to work for the government, either local or federal. And where does that money come from? It's kind of a circle and that circle didn't start with government. It started with business creating a need.

I'd like to add that, on top of taxes, businesses have to pay for licenses to regulate and protect the public, which creates government jobs (although oftentimes they say they are stretched too thin to actually do that job); pay into the workmen's comp system, which protects workers and creates more government jobs; if they run vehicles, they not only pay registration and taxes on the vehicles, but they also pay for insurance and gas (plus substantial taxes on gas). There are fees for fictitious business name statements. If you are a incorporated, there are fees for that - more government jobs. Besides insurance on vehicles, you most likely need liability insurance or malpractice insurance if you are a medical professional. Most businesses need a place to operate out of so there will be property taxes if they own their building outright. If they expand, that creates a need for construction, creating more jobs and more people paying taxes for those infrastructures that supposedly business didn't create.

For those of us that have actually run a business and created jobs, this is a very insulting statement from the President.

[4thgenFolsomite]

definately a class warfare statement. in other words, rich people should pay more taxes.

[The Average Joe]

Obummer is anti American, that's a cold hard fact represented by his words and actions

But you better check the all knowing and all seeing snopes.com to make sure this is real.
Cracks me up that people believe an old couple represent the truth for the entire Internet.

This is real. No need for snopes:



"If you are successful, you didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well it must be because I'm smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because i worked harder than everyone else. Let me tell you something, there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there."

So the implication is that GOVERNMENT helped you along? Or is it just in keeping with his equal outcomes philosophy? You know, if you are not responsible for your own success, then you are not responsible for your own failures. I guess if Obama's statement is correct for success, it must be true for failure as well. So somebody helped you out in failure too. They were either racist, homophobic, the 1%, a Tea partier, or evil white old man that held you down and is responsible for all your failures. Yep, you have no personal responsibility for your actions. Actually, now that I write that out, it does seem that he believes both sides of his statement. What a jackarse, and what an insult to every hardworking person who has kicked arse in business.

And Vin, he didn't say "alone" so it doesn't matter if he only would have said that. Those businesses ALREADY pay for the infrastructure, AS DO WE ALL. Everybody has access to them if they want to use them for an entrepreneurial enterprise. His entire premise is bogus, and self inflates the role of government which is constantly rated as the biggest OBSTACLE to business. You want more tax revenue and more business for jobs? Then get the government out of the freaking way.

As for,
"Take any business and try to start it in a 3rd-world country like Yemen or Somalia, and it would not be a success. It's a success in the US because we have good roads and a transportation system. We have police protections and infrastructure for utilities
and education. "
Interstate roads are financed by a fuel tax that we ALL PAY. Any business that uses the roads pays into that tax fund, and believe me business vehicles get far worse mileage (and thus pay more tax) than commuter cars. Local roads are financed by local taxes and bond measures, so again, those businesses are paying taxes. Police protections are paid by property taxes or localized funding. Again, businesses pay those same taxes (as well as all the personal taxes of its employees). Utilities are privately owned, or a combination of public/private and are self funding. Education is paid for by both federal and local funds and is financed through all sorts of taxes, NONE OF WHICH BUSINESS IS EXEMPT FROM.

I like you Vin, but you argument is tripe. Your man is a statist, and believes government is the answer to everything, and is responsible for all good. Funny how self important, narcissists often think they know more than everyone else.

Of course, Romney is such a douche, he won't drive home the differences between him and O Hell, I could crush Obama in a public forum based on his statements and positions. He makes it easy. Can Romney? Ummmm...

[UncleVinny]

Thanks Joe.
It's always refreshing to see an argument based on facts and logic as opposed to bias and name-calling.

Of course I'm stubborn enough to ignore it all and sidestep the points you made, because
I see the same facts and have a different interpretation.

The overriding principle behind all of this is the question of paying taxes.
If a smart man makes a success of himself BECAUSE of all the government programs
that make for a fertile business environment, AND he makes substantially more income
than those who worked equally hard, then I believe he should pay MORE of a share
of his income as payback. Right now the uber-rich pay about 15% (if anything) due to
the fact their income is mostly from investments, while the other working stiffs pay around 30%.
It's a simple question of fairness.

Then, as has been argued here, those 15%-ers take the money to an off-shore account,
where they pay nothing, is really a second level of giving the shaft to the very
system that fostered their success. No fair!

[The Average Joe]

And just for fun

You didn't build that humor video

best comment under the video:
Obama's Nobel Peace Prize...
You didn't earn that!

[The Average Joe]

If a smart man makes a success of himself BECAUSE of all the government programs
that make for a fertile business environment, AND he makes substantially more income
than those who worked equally hard, then I believe he should pay MORE of a share
of his income as payback.

There is where your premise falls on its face. Businesses are not successful BECAUSE of government programs, they are successful IN SPITE of government programs. Does California have a more fertile business environment due to government? Er, no. they are ranked dead last. Does the USA have a more fertile business environment due to government? Again, no. That is a big reason why companies are locating elsewhere.
A smart man will not be successful because of government. I challenge you to name two, or one.
But again you sidestep the issue. Obama believes government is the answer. I believe it is a huge part of the problem. How many billions were given to Obama donors for "green energy" businesses? How many of those companies went bankrupt? Where did the money go? Government fails in business because there is no incentive to balance the books or make a profit. They just go back to the sheeple and blame those that already paid for the boondoggle for not paying enough.

[UncleVinny]

Does the USA have a more fertile business environment due to government? Again, no. That is a big reason why companies are locating elsewhere.

Well, that argument falls flat IMHO.
The so-called "environment" in other countries does not include a minimum wage,
worker safety rules, child labor laws, pension plans, pollution laws, democratic
government, or criminal justice systems.



The only way to remain competitive then is to lower the standards in the US,
and that is why we're seeing the erosion of workers' rights, lower salaries,
and the highest poverty level since the 1960s.


I see raising corporate taxes, and a progressive personal income tax on the
wealthy as viable measures to restore some sense of balance.

[ducky]

Well, that argument falls flat IMHO.
The so-called "environment" in other countries does not include a minimum wage,
worker safety rules, child labor laws, pension plans, pollution laws, democratic
government, or criminal justice systems.



The only way to remain competitive then is to lower the standards in the US,
and that is why we're seeing the erosion of workers' rights, lower salaries,
and the highest poverty level since the 1960s.


I see raising corporate taxes, and a progressive personal income tax on the
wealthy as viable measures to restore some sense of balance.

What about getting ride of waste?
If you ask me what the President has said is putting the cart before the horse.
Asking for more money before making sure what you are already collecting is protected from fraud and waste is like shutting the stable door after the steed has been stolen.