22 replies to this topic

[fatfenders]

Last July I posted about how I was slammed to the pavement by an inattentive driver while bicycling . So I always try and learn a little something from these kinds of experiences. One of the things I learned from this one is to travel with a helmet cam or dash cam whenever we get out there now (both my wife and I). The last time it was just south of Blue Ravine & E. Natoma. This time it was right there at that intersection. We had just spun down from the dam, reached the intersection, punched the walk button, waited, and when the 'walk' light turned green I did a quick check of the outside lane (behind me) and started across the intersection (in the crosswalk, with a green walk light). I would probably be in the ER right now instead of posting this if my wife had not cried out a warning. I slammed my brakes on and narrowly avoided another trip to the blacktop. Its pretty clear this stupid driver came flying down from the direction of the dam in the inside lane, then went screaming around us, missing me by inches.

If anyone knows this really stupid driver... say hi for me.

In the image below I am just entering the crosswalk. Note the green light and the lighted 'walk' sign.


Whoaaa!



Fat, dumb, and happy.

[FolsomEJ]

You should have turned your head to get a plate number and called the Folsom PD (non-emergency) and gotten instructions how to report the event.

[fatfenders]

You should have turned your head to get a plate number and called the Folsom PD (non-emergency) and gotten instructions how to report the event.

Veteran,
I know why you say that and the same thought occurred to me when I got home and viewed the video. But in real time it really doesn't work that way... here is why. One almost has to function in nanoseconds in these situations. The instinctive reaction is to look to where she came from to see if more danger lurks. There just is not enough time. After I cleared myself, I turned to view the back of her car but by then she was long gone.







Another reason... if you were to search for my ID (fatfenders) you would find the posts I made last summer about the first episode. She was absolutely positively in the wrong and I was doing everything right. Yet the Folsom PD failed to cite her. I was amazed. So if that's how they deal with a stupid driver who actually nails a guy on a bike, just what can we expect from them when it is just a 'near miss'?

[chris v]

In that exact same spot I have had the same thing happen to me while on a bicycle. I now occupy the traffic lane or turn lane, if I'm turning, so people know I'm there.

[Folsom_Blues]

Glad you are OK! This is why I never ride in crosswalks. Lane positioning is very important and on this road there is a bike lane to the LEFT of the right hand turn lane which avoids the movement altogether. Of course, this doesn't stop people from passing on the left and then veering into the right hand lane to get there "faster". It fails about 90% of the time though for the driver!

A good place to learn road riding is Smart Cycling.. They have a class upcoming.

[fatfenders]

Glad you are OK! This is why I never ride in crosswalks. Lane positioning is very important and on this road there is a bike lane to the LEFT of the right hand turn lane which avoids the movement altogether. Of course, this doesn't stop people from passing on the left and then veering into the right hand lane to get there "faster". It fails about 90% of the time though for the driver!

A good place to learn road riding <img src="http://http://www.de...ac.com/r11.jpg" />//http://www.demiurgiac.com/r11.jpg">is Smart Cycling.. They have a class upcoming.

Veteran,
I don't disagree with all you say but lets face it, its a 'damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you don't' situation when a bicycle is mixing it up with traffic. I feel almost naked when I am out there in the bike lane in a place like that intersection. Literally, "fools to the left of me, jokers to the right". And I would NEVER get out and mix it up like Chris (in the left turn lane). Our thrice weekly run takes us down to Folsom blvd via the trails, then cross Folsom Blvd at the light at Parkshore drive (using the crosswalk!), down to Hazel, across the river, back east to the dam, up the dam road and down to THE intersection, then the trails home. I will do anything and everything to avoid getting out in traffic. This 26 mile route requires us to cross only 4 intersections, all with lights, all relatively safe with the exception of THAT intersection.
And while we can all learn new stuff about whatever it is we do, I am no lightweight regarding bicycling. I am an old man who has spent a good deal of time spinning in places all over the world including places like Central Europe as shown below. I had never taken a serious spill or involved in any kind of collision until this summer, and that, in a bike lane, right direction, doing everything correctly. Just a few miles from home.

[tony]

FF: Glad you are OK!

I know what you mean about getting the video of of the license. I don't have a helmet cam, but in all the incidents where I wished I had a license plate number, it never occurred to me until at least 5 seconds after the car was gone (I've tried to run them down at the next light, but it takes some extremely-poor signal timing and a downhill for that to work out).

One question: were you riding or walking in the crosswalk? If the former, even if the the motorist was oblivious to your presence in the crosswalk, you would get little support from the police, who would say you were illegally riding in a crosswalk, in which case the motorist has no duty to yield. If the latter, then clearly the motorist would be at fault. Personally, if I were riding eastbound on E. Natoma, I would not be using the crosswalk to get across the street for exactly this reason. There is a through bike lane to the left of the right turn only lane, and that is the safest way to proceed as a bicyclist.

Interestingly, I saw a female bicyclist make a left turn onto Green Valley Rd. from that very bike lane on Saturday afternoon. She clearly understood the operation of the signal and turned left from the aforementioned through bike lane with the left turn signal (knowing that through traffic would still have a red light); basically, she treated the signal as if it had a bike box. It worked, but is clearly illegal and I would not recommend it.

[tony]

Unfortunately, when you ride timidly on busy roads, you put yourself into positions where you are in conflict with turning motorists, which, as your experience Saturday proved, is, contrary to common wisdom, less safe than "mixing it up" with traffic. And the reason is, that if you use the through bike lane, you get to choose when to make the crossing move, and once you get to the intersection, you are no longer in conflict with turning motorists. I ride through this intersection frequently and have never had a problem.

OK, one other suggestion: turn right on Briggs Ranch Rd., left on Manseau and continue across Blue Ravine onto Parkway Drive, from which you can get back on the bike path system and skip that intersection entirely.

Veteran,
I don't disagree with all you say but lets face it, its a 'damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you don't' situation when a bicycle is mixing it up with traffic. I feel almost naked when I am out there in the bike lane in a place like that intersection. Literally, "fools to the left of me, jokers to the right". And I would NEVER get out and mix it up like Chris (in the left turn lane). Our thrice weekly run takes us down to Folsom blvd via the trails, then cross Folsom Blvd at the light at Parkshore drive (using the crosswalk!), down to Hazel, across the river, back east to the dam, up the dam road and down to THE intersection, then the trails home. I will do anything and everything to avoid getting out in traffic. This 26 mile route requires us to cross only 4 intersections, all with lights, all relatively safe with the exception of THAT intersection.
And while we can all learn new stuff about whatever it is we do, I am no lightweight regarding bicycling. I am an old man who has spent a good deal of time spinning in places all over the world including places like Central Europe as shown below. I had never taken a serious spill or involved in any kind of collision until this summer, and that, in a bike lane, right direction, doing everything correctly. Just a few miles from home.

[ducky]

Good catch with your camera. What you have shown in your photos are a common sight to many of us pedestrians in town, too. I've been close enough touch the car while I was five steps out into the crosswalk and the driver decided instead of stopping they would just swing wide around me.

Happy to hear you didn't meet the pavement this time.
Stay safe:)

[fatfenders]

Unfortunately, when you ride timidly on busy roads, you put yourself into positions where you are not in conflict with turning motorists, which, as your experience Saturday proved, is, contrary to common wisdom, less safe than "mixing it up" with traffic. And the reason is, that if you use the through bike lane, you get to choose when to make the crossing move, and once you get to the intersection, you are no longer in conflict with turning motorists. I ride through this intersection frequently and have never had a problem.

OK, one other suggestion: turn right on Briggs Ranch Rd., left on Manseau and continue across Blue Ravine onto Parkway Drive, from which you can get back on the bike path system and skip that intersection entirely.

Tony,
Again, I don't disagree with your reasoning but, when you ride through that intersection over to Natoma do you feel comfortable on the stretch shown in red? I sure don't. I have found (until today) the crosswalk/sidewalk to be the lesser of two evils. Cars come flying out of the intersection wanting to turn into the shopping center. I used to take that route but the 'red' part made me very uncomfortable. Often wondered just what the legal issues are since there is no marked bike lane until you get to the other side of driveway.

All that said, I agree about Manseau completely. That's the route my wife usually takes and has been trying to convince me to do the same for a long time. Convinced. I shall cross at the main intersection no more forever!

[andy]

I am glad you are okay and I certainly think a more careful driver would have avoided this close call but if you were riding a bike you were in the wrong here and contributed significantly to the event. No disrespect intended, bnut you are picking on a car driver for not reacting to a poor and illegal choice of your own.

Crosswalks are not for cyclists, they are for pedestrians. To proceed straight at that intersection you're supposed to use the bike lane or the farthest right traffic lane for straight-moving traffic (whichever is more practicable). Using the right-turn lane or the crosswalk is an invitation to trouble and an unpredictable behavior that is hard for other road users to react to properly. Do everything you can to be seen, and that starts with riding where you are supposed to ride, and not where you aren't. I realize using the bike lane or traffic lane in that area might make you uncomfortable, but if you can't get comfortable riding on a 45 mph road through a busy intersection you should just avoid it as others suggest. Leave that road to folks who are comfortable riding there.

I am enormously sympathetic to you, but I ride a lot of miles in Folsom myself, almost all of it in traffic because I ride faster than you should on bike paths, and I've consistently found that the best way to avoid trouble is to ride in the traffic lane or the bike lane (and with the flow of traffic). Anything else simply makes you harder to see and as you've now seen twice, motorists tend to hit cyclists when they don't see them. I hope your luck is better going forward.

[ducky]

Setting aside all the technical cycling rules, this driver was still in the wrong. It looks to me like the pedestrian crossing walk sign was on. This should have alerted her to the need to stop and look before turning. If fatfenders was walking his bicycle across it would have still been the same dangerous situation with her failing to yield.

[andy]

Setting aside all the technical cycling rules, this driver was still in the wrong. It looks to me like the pedestrian crossing walk sign was on. This should have alerted her to the need to stop and look before turning. If fatfenders was walking his bicycle across it would have still been the same dangerous situation with her failing to yield.

Sorry to disagree but those "technical" rules are what keep us safe - and they also seem to be the bame of most folks on this board when it's perceived that a cyclist broke them.

A walk sign is not an indicator that a driver should stop like you suggest, especially on a green light. It means yield to any pedestrian present. He was riding , he wasn't walking, and it's not fair to this person in the car to simply presume she would have driven the same if a pedestrian were actually present.

It's simply too dangerous for a person not following the rules of the road to assume that it's too 'technical' and everyone else should just adjust to the way he feels like riding.

[ducky]

Sorry to disagree but those "technical" rules are what keep us safe - and they also seem to be the bame of most folks on this board when it's perceived that a cyclist broke them.

A walk sign is not an indicator that a driver should stop like you suggest, especially on a green light. It means yield to any pedestrian present. He was riding , he wasn't walking, and it's not fair to this person in the car to simply presume she would have driven the same if a pedestrian were actually present.

It's simply too dangerous for a person not following the rules of the road to assume that it's too 'technical' and everyone else should just adjust to the way he feels like riding.

I'm not saying bicyclists shouldn't obey those technical rules.

I will say you are wrong that it isn't fair to presume this driver wouldn't have driven the same if it were a pedestrian. I'd be a lot flatter right now if I assumed drivers pay attention to walk signs and don't do exactly what this motorist did. At some intersections it is the rule more than the exception that drivers don't yield. A walk sign only comes on when someone pushes the button. It's not automatic. That is why drivers need to be alert when they are turning right on a green and that sign is lit.