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Changes On Sutter Street


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#1 Steve Heard

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:02 PM

The good:

  • Starlight Starbright so believes in the historic district that the owners moved their store from Broadstone to 711 Sutter. Open for business and doing well.
  • The Fat Rabbit seems to be thriving. I went last week for awesome fish tacos. Not exactly British Pub Food, but that's a good thing. 
  • I went to Second Saturday and was surprised to see the big crowd at the Amphitheater, listing to a 'Another Brick', a Pink Floyd tribute band.  
  • Lockdown Brewing seemed to have a good crowd up on their balcony

 

The Not-so-good:

  • As mentioned before, the Mercantile shops are closing at the end of June. 
  • Parallax Gallery lasted less than a year at their location in the old Clouds building. The owner says he's been informed his rent is going up 40% so he's shutting down. 
  • I went to Second Saturday and was disappointed to see how many merchants were closed, passing up the opportunity to make some money, and also, because it sends a bad PR message that the merchants don't think Second Saturday is important. 

The kinda strange:

  • Someone posted at least one sign which said something like, 'Folsom is a family town. No more bars or parlers' (not sure what a parler is). I'm wondering if there's a movement to stop bars from opening or if it's just one person's opinion. With all of the shops closed for Second Saturday, there wasn't much to see other than the bars and a few shops who did open.  

 


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#2 4thgenFolsomite

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:20 PM

I think there is a feeling that people are getting tired of all the bars and liquor licenses on Sutter Street.  We can't lose all the daytime businesses or its going to be something none of us want.  Second Saturday is one night six months out of the year, so that's six nights a year basically.  The merchants down there aren't stupid.  Many of them tried staying open on those nights and weren't seeing a return on their time.  If we had more daytime stores, we would get more daytime shoppers.  I think the Mercantile closing is scaring people who fear what may be going in.

 

Steve, you missed one really good thing:  the new farmers market starts May 25th and will be every Saturday year round!!


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#3 caligirlz

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:53 PM

Dancing "parlor"?

#4 SCA

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:18 PM

My neighbor is a gang detective in Sac and said that one of the bars on Sutter Street has a weekly hip hop night which is attracting gang members. Has anyone seen evidence of this?

#5 4thgenFolsomite

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:22 PM

My neighbor is a gang detective in Sac and said that one of the bars on Sutter Street has a weekly hip hop night which is attracting gang members. Has anyone seen evidence of this?

 

yes.  the police will confirm this too.  plus tagging.  and one merchant found a bunch of live large caliber ammo in a planter. probably someone dumped it so they wouldn't be caught with a loaded weapon?


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#6 nomad

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:06 PM

Trying to turn the place into Old Sac.



#7 The Average Joe

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:57 PM

Why they don't prosecute gang members as domestic terrorists is beyond me...


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#8 Steve Heard

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:54 PM

I think there is a feeling that people are getting tired of all the bars and liquor licenses on Sutter Street.  We can't lose all the daytime businesses or its going to be something none of us want.  Second Saturday is one night six months out of the year, so that's six nights a year basically.  The merchants down there aren't stupid.  Many of them tried staying open on those nights and weren't seeing a return on their time.  If we had more daytime stores, we would get more daytime shoppers.  I think the Mercantile closing is scaring people who fear what may be going in.

 

Steve, you missed one really good thing:  the new farmers market starts May 25th and will be every Saturday year round!!

 

It seems that most of the new bars are replacing old bars. Fat Rabbit was Old Europe, Sam Horne's was Plates or something like that. Sutter Street Steakhouse has a bar, and so does Hampton's, but both of those are full-service restaurants. 

 

Unfortunately, when banks, grocery stores, drug stores, car dealerships, and the like move to more modern facilities, as happened on Sutter, they often get replaced by bars, restaurants, galleries and antique stores. That's what we have on Sutter.  

 

Remember though, that Sutter Street has had bars since the 1800's, and even a much-celebrated brothel.

 

It has always had both family and adult-oriented businesses.   

 

I would like to see a grocery or convenience store on Sutter. There seems to be a need. Both locals and visitors can pick up staples and supplies. There should be a place where on one buy bottled water, batteries, a pack of gum, toilet paper, a sandwich, maybe picnic supplies. 

 

When I had an office at the visitor center, many people would come in and ask where they could get Folsom-themed gifts and memorabilia. I had to tell them there wasn't much to be had. 

 

I remember when the streetscape remodel was being discussed, and many times in discussing the Thursday Night Markets, the message was that a lot of the merchants don't want to be open in the evenings, that they'd rather not deal with the crowds. 

 

 

Can't have it both ways. There were lots of people on the street Saturday night. My wife bought some earrings at one of the shops and we had a drink at the Sutter Club. 

 

I spoke to one of the business owners today and told him I had stopped in and found him closed. He said, 'yeah, we were out of there by 630'. That's his business, literally, but if you're going to go into business, and you want to make money, maybe you should be open when people are shopping.  

 

My neighbor is a gang detective in Sac and said that one of the bars on Sutter Street has a weekly hip hop night which is attracting gang members. Has anyone seen evidence of this?

 

That could be referring to Yager's, which had hip-hop Tuesdays and brought many idiots to Sutter, but they've been closed for years. The only other is Powerhouse, which has College night on Tuesday.  

 

A cop that I know said that much of the trouble went away when Yager's closed. I haven't heard about the gang thing since. 


Steve Heard

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#9 4thgenFolsomite

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:49 AM

 

It seems that most of the new bars are replacing old bars. Fat Rabbit was Old Europe, Sam Horne's was Plates or something like that. Sutter Street Steakhouse has a bar, and so does Hampton's, but both of those are full-service restaurants. 

 

Unfortunately, when banks, grocery stores, drug stores, car dealerships, and the like move to more modern facilities, as happened on Sutter, they often get replaced by bars, restaurants, galleries and antique stores. That's what we have on Sutter.  

 

Remember though, that Sutter Street has had bars since the 1800's, and even a much-celebrated brothel.

 

It has always had both family and adult-oriented businesses.   

 

I would like to see a grocery or convenience store on Sutter. There seems to be a need. Both locals and visitors can pick up staples and supplies. There should be a place where on one buy bottled water, batteries, a pack of gum, toilet paper, a sandwich, maybe picnic supplies. 

 

When I had an office at the visitor center, many people would come in and ask where they could get Folsom-themed gifts and memorabilia. I had to tell them there wasn't much to be had. 

 

I remember when the streetscape remodel was being discussed, and many times in discussing the Thursday Night Markets, the message was that a lot of the merchants don't want to be open in the evenings, that they'd rather not deal with the crowds. 

 

 

Can't have it both ways. There were lots of people on the street Saturday night. My wife bought some earrings at one of the shops and we had a drink at the Sutter Club. 

 

 

okay, got to stop you right there.  There was NEVER a brothel on Sutter Street.  Emma's was roughly where Karen's Bakery is today and at the most she had a couple of girls down there.  In those days Leidesdorff Street was like a whole different neighborhood, out of sight and out of mind, so it wasnt right in your face.  Sutter Street had saloons, but they were definately the minority business and they were all well-run and low-key.

 

The loss of daytime family businesses has been a slow creep.  The transformation you are talking about in your post, Steve, (banks, hardware, car dealerships leaving) happened when the town incorporated and the E. Bidwell Street commercial strip opened; that was over 50 years ago.  The street came back slowly from that and many people worked hard to hold on and keep the street together.  That was a struggle and nearly resulted in the loss of many historic buildings on the street.  But the street came back and developed unique stores with antiques and artists and litle cafe and restaurants.  The Sutter Club has been there forever, as has the bar in the Folsom Hotel, but even then it was pretty quiet at night and the street was definately family-friendly.  Where Sam Horne's is used to be Peppermint Lane, an old fashioned wonderful candy store with barrels of candy and speciality items.  It was great and very popular.  Where Fat Rabbit is used to be the Folsom Telegraph, then a Sizzler's type steak house.

 

I think if you are seeing signs in windows like you are suggesting (I havent seen them yet), that you might not be so quick to dismiss these people and their concerns as wierd until you have really talked to them.  People now are concerned about seeing the Mercantile close and yet another bar go in.  Hamptons used to be residential, then a coffee shop and art gallery and now its a restaurant that makes a big point of its bar.  There are far more liquor licenses now on the street than ever before.  I love that Sam Hornes and Fat Rabbit and Hamptons are open for lunch, because I think that is important for the daytime businesses, so I applaud them all.  But keep this in mind.  While there are many people there during the evening and weekends, there aren't during the midweek day and that is only going to increase as there are fewer daytime shoppers down there.  I agree with you that we need more tourist-type shops down there and I wish someone would capitalize on that, but until they do, I hope we do all we can to retain daytime businesses that keep the sun shining down there.  Lastly its very easy for outsiders to judge businesses that didn't stay open for Thursday Night Market, but talk to them about their reasons before you characterize them as stupid or lazy or poor business people for not staying open.  


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#10 Steve Heard

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:31 AM

okay, got to stop you right there.  There was NEVER a brothel on Sutter Street.  Emma's was roughly where Karen's Bakery is today and at the most she had a couple of girls down there.  In those days Leidesdorff Street was like a whole different neighborhood, out of sight and out of mind, so it wasnt right in your face.  Sutter Street had saloons, but they were definately the minority business and they were all well-run and low-key.

 

The loss of daytime family businesses has been a slow creep.  The transformation you are talking about in your post, Steve, (banks, hardware, car dealerships leaving) happened when the town incorporated and the E. Bidwell Street commercial strip opened; that was over 50 years ago.  The street came back slowly from that and many people worked hard to hold on and keep the street together.  That was a struggle and nearly resulted in the loss of many historic buildings on the street.  But the street came back and developed unique stores with antiques and artists and litle cafe and restaurants.  The Sutter Club has been there forever, as has the bar in the Folsom Hotel, but even then it was pretty quiet at night and the street was definately family-friendly.  Where Sam Horne's is used to be Peppermint Lane, an old fashioned wonderful candy store with barrels of candy and speciality items.  It was great and very popular.  Where Fat Rabbit is used to be the Folsom Telegraph, then a Sizzler's type steak house.

 

I think if you are seeing signs in windows like you are suggesting (I havent seen them yet), that you might not be so quick to dismiss these people and their concerns as wierd until you have really talked to them.  People now are concerned about seeing the Mercantile close and yet another bar go in.  Hamptons used to be residential, then a coffee shop and art gallery and now its a restaurant that makes a big point of its bar.  There are far more liquor licenses now on the street than ever before.  I love that Sam Hornes and Fat Rabbit and Hamptons are open for lunch, because I think that is important for the daytime businesses, so I applaud them all.  But keep this in mind.  While there are many people there during the evening and weekends, there aren't during the midweek day and that is only going to increase as there are fewer daytime shoppers down there.  I agree with you that we need more tourist-type shops down there and I wish someone would capitalize on that, but until they do, I hope we do all we can to retain daytime businesses that keep the sun shining down there.  Lastly its very easy for outsiders to judge businesses that didn't stay open for Thursday Night Market, but talk to them about their reasons before you characterize them as stupid or lazy or poor business people for not staying open.  

 

Thanks for the history lesson. I know that is your specialty and that you know it far better than most.

 

My knowledge only comes from my experiences and things I've learned, heard, read and observed over the past 12 years that I've been here. 

 

Working backwards, I did not say the business owners were stupid, lazy or poor, I said that some said they didn't want to deal with the crowds, which is their right, but not generally considered good business practice. People often open retail shops BECAUSE of the possibility of crowds, not in spite of them.

 

If the crowds were unruly or threatening, the art galleries, candy store and the other shops that are open would certainly shut their doors as well.  

 

In discussing the needs of citizens and visitors and merchants, we always have conflicting opinions, ie;

  • 'we need more things to do at night (bars and clubs)' vs. 'we have too many bars, this is a family town',
  • 'we need more parking in the historic district' vs. the historic district is a residential area, we need less parking, and besides, people should ride bikes',
  • 'we need to attract more tourists to Sutter so that businesses will survive, because the locals aren't supporting them' vs. 'we don't want to turn this into a tourist destination and all of the trouble outsiders bring. it's for locals'
  • 'Sutter St. used to be family-oriented and now it's full of bars' to 'Sutter has always been rowdy at night, with drunks and fighting in the streets'

Right now, there's a discussion on Facebook about what we need. Among the suggestions, 'Crate and Barrell', a book store, and the comment 'Folsom shuts down way too early for adults'.

 

In the end, the market decides which businesses survive, and though some have failed, restaurants and bars still tend to be the most popular establishments. 

 

Personally, I think it is almost shameful that we (and the school district) spend so much money on our jazz programs, from elementary all the way through high school, with a jazz festival, fundraisers and sending the kids to Monterrey and Montreaux, but there is no jazz, zero, played anywhere else in Folsom, as far as I can tell. 

 

We have a great little amphitheater on Sutter which goes largely unused. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since it was built, its use has been limited to 2 Pink Floyd tribute shows, a Santana cover band, a Johnny Cash tribute show and and Folsom Live. I think it should be used at least every weekend, and during the week they can have noon and/or evening jazz concerts. 

 

There are many musicians looking for gigs, many who would play for free if allowed up there. 

 

In fact, on some Wednesdays I've seen Jerry Farrely (I think that's his last name), a great sax player, playing by himself in Pioneer Village, with no audience. Wouldn't it be better to have him on the stage, with people (locals and the dreaded tourists) sitting and listening? 

 

End of rant for now. Bottom line is that like you, like most of us, I love this town and the historic district and I'd like to see businesses thrive there, and as long as they are not doing anything illegal, bars, tourist shops and outsiders should be welcomed. 


Steve Heard

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Owner - MyFolsom.com

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#11 Folsom_Blues

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:14 AM

I'm sorry, if you are running an unsuccessful business in 2013 and your hours are from 11-5, then you simply aren't trying hard enough. People have mentioned many successful businesses that are thriving on Sutter St and it's very easy to blame others when things are going wrong. I welcome the rise of rents, it means that people realize the opportunity down there and if proprietors can't run a successful venture there, then pack it up and let someone move in that can. It appears Sutter St is destined to be an arts and entertainment district. Is that really so bad?



#12 AMETHYST PRODUCTIVITY

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:27 AM

How about a real ice cream parlor? Snooks only serves Dreyers which I won't pay per scoop prices for.

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#13 caligirlz

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:36 AM

 

 

We have a great little amphitheater on Sutter which goes largely unused. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since it was built, its use has been limited to 2 Pink Floyd tribute shows, a Santana cover band, a Johnny Cash tribute show and and Folsom Live. I think it should be used at least every weekend, and during the week they can have noon and/or evening jazz concerts. 

 

I probably will not go there for concerts due to the lack of shade. It would be nice if they could put up some type of shade covering &/or misters.



#14 EAH

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:57 PM

My grandparents Dan and Louise Welty were two major players in revitalizing this town in the late 50's early 60's. They opened up the theater in the Sutter Club and ran it ( and starred in all the plays) until early 1980's. I well remember visiting on the weekends from the Bay Area. The best part of our visits was intermission. My Grandfather, dressed in his top hat and tails ( he was often asked for autographs because he looked exactly like Rex Harrison), would lead the audience on a grand tour of Sutter Street : we'd go into Patsy's soda /Ice cream shop, and then over to Peppermint Patties, and then on to the next shop. I got to hold my grandpa's hand as we walked and I always felt like a little princess.



#15 4thgenFolsomite

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:11 PM

I'm sorry, if you are running an unsuccessful business in 2013 and your hours are from 11-5, then you simply aren't trying hard enough. People have mentioned many successful businesses that are thriving on Sutter St and it's very easy to blame others when things are going wrong. I welcome the rise of rents, it means that people realize the opportunity down there and if proprietors can't run a successful venture there, then pack it up and let someone move in that can. It appears Sutter St is destined to be an arts and entertainment district. Is that really so bad?

 

it does appear to not be great.  arts and entertainment are fine from 6 to 10 pm, its what happens later that creates huge problems down there.  I like the stores like Clouds, Not Too Shabby, Melange, Grey's Antiques, Pacific Western Traders.  I would like to see more like them.  I think there are plenty of bars and restaurants now.  That's my point.

 

EAH, you know how it used to be.  a nice place to visit and stroll along, shop.  like Sutter Creek or Calistoga's main street.  diverse things for everyone.

 

and if you think those store owners are only there 11 to 5, 5 days a week, you are mistaken.  again, until you know what its like to run a business down there, a unique, non-corporate business, then don't criticize.  More bars and night time businesses aren't some great thing for our little historic town unless you want more bars on windows, more crime reports, more graffiti and fewer places to take your out of town visitors. 

 

I'm just saying Balance, not one way or the other.  and until the funding is in place to shade the amphitheater, no one is going to enjoy that place until after dark.  It is going to be a great asset for the district and the FHDA is on that. 

 

the good thing is....people are interested.  that's the good thing.  Sutter Street and the historic district really is the heart and soul of this community.


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