10 replies to this topic

[Jeka]

We are considering buying a DR Horton home in The Knolls off E. Natoma Street & Green Valley Road close to The Parkway & Empire Ranch. After doing some research online I found unfavorable reviews regarding the construction of these homes but the reviews are from all over the united states. I realize a home builder is only as good as their contractors & sub-contractors.  Does anyone have any personal experience with DR Horton locally?  As of right now their reputation doesn't look so good but the home really fits our needs & location.  Also, is the $400,000 range for this area considered an entry-level home or mid-level home?

[caligirlz]

I would not, but this is based on touring the models in Roseville during the housing boom in 2004/2005. The quality was shoddy, and any extra was an extra (expensive) charge. I heard a lot of complaints about the Horton homes in Roseville too. 

 

I recently looked at the new models near the Treehouse development (don't remember the builder), but as beautiful as they were, those too were very cheap. For example, the shower doors did not align or close completely, shutters did not close. I don't remember what else, but it was enough to leave an impression. Thankfully, I already own. I was checking out design ideas. 

 

Perhaps now that builders aren't putting up homes as quickly as the boom years, perhaps the quality is better. There are issues with all homes, some big, some small. There's class action suits against Elliot and other local builders too. 

 

I would say $400k is mid-level, borderline low. It seems the lowest price for new/newer/remdoel is a minimum of $300k. 

 

If you like the house and it meets your needs, then I personally think you should go for it. 

[Jeka]

You're right about issues with all builders; it's just scary when it's almost a 1/2 a million dollar investment. I did hear about the Elliott homes lawsuit and actually some with other builders in Folsom.  Would you say approximately $400,000 is an entry-level home or mid-level home in Folsom?

[The Average Joe]

Here is the bottom line for ALL of the large builders/developers. They don't do the work themselves. If you want attention to detail, you hire a custom home-builder with a good reputation. ALL general contractors use sub-contractors to build houses. While a custom builder will likely be on site and have a working relationship with his subs, big builders hire sub-contractors that have many, many crews to do the volume they have. It all depends on which sub crew shows up on any given day. There are crummy ones and great ones working at the same tract.

For a short while, I did production work. You see the same subs working for JMC, WinnCrest, US Homes, Renaissance, etc., as there are only so many companies that have the manpower to cover that much volume. I hated it, because most big companies only want it good enough to pass the potential buyer's inspection. They really don't care about quality...they just want it fast. An 83 day building schedule from dirt to finish is just stupid, and shortcuts will be made. That said, new homes offer great insulation, plentiful electrical, and new main systems. Just some of the detail work is sketchy at times.

[cw68]

Here is the bottom line for ALL of the large builders/developers. They don't do the work themselves. If you want attention to detail, you hire a custom home-builder with a good reputation. ALL general contractors use sub-contractors to build houses. While a custom builder will likely be on site and have a working relationship with his subs, big builders hire sub-contractors that have many, many crews to do the volume they have. It all depends on which sub crew shows up on any given day. There are crummy ones and great ones working at the same tract.
For a short while, I did production work. You see the same subs working for JMC, WinnCrest, US Homes, Renaissance, etc., as there are only so many companies that have the manpower to cover that much volume. I hated it, because most big companies only want it good enough to pass the potential buyer's inspection. They really don't care about quality...they just want it fast. An 83 day building schedule from dirt to finish is just stupid, and shortcuts will be made. That said, new homes offer great insulation, plentiful electrical, and new main systems. Just some of the detail work is sketchy at times.

This sums up my thoughts on new construction.

I think there's something beneficial to having contractors who are there from start to finish, building a building versus having one guys install cabinets in five homes a day. I had to replace some drawer slides in the kitchen in Natoma Station; they were fastened with staples, not screws, and it made a simple job very time consuming. That's the sign of someone just punching a time card, IMO, versus building a kitchen for someone.

[mrdavex]

I live in an Elliot Home built in 1999.  As I've made repairs and improvements, I have noticed the shortcuts.  None of them affect the structural integrity or safety, but like CW said, they make the repair/replacement job much more challenging.  Some examples:

 

1. No Phone or Cable outlets in the non-master bedrooms.  I've had to run these myself, as I don't trust the Comcast or AT&T guy to do them nicely or safely.

2. One-piece shutoff valve and supply line combo to sinks and toilets.  Means that any faucet or toilet replacement also requires replacing the supply valve, meaning I have to shutoff the water to the entire house and then contort myself to fit in the nooks and crannies.

3.  All Pfaucets are Pfister.  Although Pfister is a decent brand, none of the home improvement stores in town carry replacement parts.  So once I had to take time off from work on a weekday to drive to a plumbing supply shop in the not-so-nice part of Sac.  All my faucet replacements from now on will be Delta.

4.  The return air intake filter is a not-so-standard 20x24 size.  Only Home Depot and Lowe's carry these sizes, and even then not as many varieties available like the 20x25 size.

5.  The shower valve cartridge was installed prior to the shower paneling.  When it came time to replace the cartridge, the screws holding it in were unreachable because they were behind the panel.  Had to add a few minutes to drag out the Dremel and shop vac to cut out some panel. 

 

None of these shortcuts were major cost savings, as they saved maybe $20 per home on materials, and really nothing on labor.  But other than this minor rant, I feel fortunate to live in a pretty solid built, well-insulated home. 

 

[Steve Heard]

Yeah, what they said.

 

As far as what $400K gets you in Folsom, 25 have homes priced between $390K and $410K. Smallest was 1670 sq ft 10 year old home in the Parkway, and the largest was a 2565 sq ft Lexington hills short-sale.

 

The average in that range 2027 sq ft, priced at $201 per foot..   

 

As for Folsom homes for sale in that price range, you're looking at a choice of 8 homes. 3 are identical models in Vizcaya, there's one new construction, 2 older homes Willow Creek, and a couple of 'patio homes'. 

 

Is that what you're interested in?

 

Going a little higher gets you more....most of the time.

[cw68]

2. One-piece shutoff valve and supply line combo to sinks and toilets.  Means that any faucet or toilet replacement also requires replacing the supply valve, meaning I have to shutoff the water to the entire house and then contort myself to fit in the nooks and crannies.
 

I forgot about this! It is frustrating. I wanted to replace the bathroom sink fixtures but had to wait until my Dad visited because I only knew how to do a simple replacement. Nothing more than frustrating though.

[The Average Joe]

Just one more note. If you are buying a new home, stand firm if there is something you do not like. You are paying for it. Imagine you hired an independent contractor to do whatever trade you find unacceptable. Then ask yourself if you would accept the work and pay the man. If you hesitate or say no, DO NOT ACCEPT the builders excuses. Once you sign the final papers, good luck getting any service. That is your power. Use it. the bottom line is you have to aggressively advocate on your own behalf...

<pauses as tiny bulb illuminates bald spot over head> Hmmm, might be there is a business opportunity for an aging licensed contractor....what would you pay to have a "new home consultant" advocate on your behalf against a builder?

[Redone]

They haven't built single family in Folsom for about 10 years, but the tract in Empire Ranch was pretty solid.  Overbuilt compared to some in the area.   2 water heaters, 8 foot garage doors ,  well insulated, etc.     

[Agent_007]

you are buying a production home, not much different than a production car, except my Toyota 4Runner has been more reliable than my home over the past 16 years.

 

having bought new in 2002, we've had to replace/repair the following in our short 12 years:

entire water supply plumbing system in 2014 (builder used what turned out to be defective plumbing, of no fault to the builder except they never notified us we were living with a time bomb);

water heater 2013;

microwave oven combo just died a few weeks ago (GE, which IMO is pure crap);

dishwasher in 2008 (GE again, crap, replaced with Bosch);

garage door opener in 2011 (on my wedding anniversary, so i got to install a new one on my anniversary, all at my cost);

all the kitchen counter task lighting has failed a few times and i am about to rip out the original and install LED task lighting;

major water leak around windows in family room; all windows replaced by builder under warranty and water mitigation too paid for by builder;

some windows are now hazy due to cheap quality windows used in building home (this is somewhat common in Folsom from what I've heard);

garbage disposal died after 8 years, replaced with a real, quality ISE brand;

and the usual stucco cracking, gaps you get as a home settles over time.

 

overall, you have two choices, rent or buy. you just need to know there is no such thing as perfect and that production homes are built with fairly crappy components and parts. after all, these builders are publicly traded companies and profits mean the world to them and getting your money is their objective.