52 replies to this topic

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Both NASA and NOAA (using different datasets) have reported that February was the warmest globally ever recorded for that month.  And by a significant amount.  Normally temperature records are set by tiny fractions of a degree.  February set the record by 1.35 degrees C (2.43 degrees F) which is substantial by temperature record data.  Normally, dramatic excursions like this are referred to as anomalies, or outliers...not the norm.  The prior four months (Oct - Jan) however, all set similar records, each of which was at least 1 degree C.  So the anomalies are occurring every month, which qualifies them as a trend, no longer anomalies.   See this reference:

 

https://weather.com/...ary-global-2016

 

Scientists are concerned about how quickly the temperatures are increasing.  I worry about how societies are going to deal with it.  Nobody's ready.

[Chris]

Yep, the sky is falling....!    Tell me old chicken little, the sky is falling grumpy old guy, what was the C02 level some 150 million years ago...?   What was the sea level in 480 BC at the battle of Thermopylae...?   Battle of the "Hot Gates".....  The "300".....   Answer these questions and you will look like a "Climate Clown" fool that you are.....!   Stop trying to scare the sheeple....!   CO2 was very high, in the thousands of ppm, the ocean was at the Hot Gates in 480 BC but is now miles away, several miles away.........   You are looking too closely, too small of scale, at climate change, you need to take a much longer and broader view....!  Your climate change, politically driven panic is just laughable...!   And yes, equate my intellect with a 6th grader once again, call me a "denier".  Tell me I am not educated, stupid, can't do the math once again....!  Sad thing for you is that this is what I studied some 30+ years ago in college.  Took all of the courses, got my degree in Geology, Paleo Ecology, know these things inside and out.  Worked in a lab these past 30 years now, know what I am doing in the "Science" field for sure.   Go ahead, make my day.....!   Please tell me I am "uneducated", "ignorant", and at a "sixth grade level" in my studies once again..   I need a good laugh this weekend, and from the self anointed smartest guy on this forum....!   So cool...!   Chris

[2 Aces]

Chris, he/they obviously have a weird obsession with this *one* particular issue. They are now baiting you. They are very pleased with themselves. Please stop responding and he/they will go away. Guaranteed.

[apeman45]

All Grumpy Old Guy did was reference some scientific data from 2 highly respected agencies.  This is factual data that can't be disputed.  It is just a measure of temperature.  You can extrapolate whatever you like from this data.  Ignore it if you'd like.  Major decisions and expenditures are already being made to protect infrastructure based on data like this.  It is not a political issue.  It can't be disputed.  The world is warming at an alarming rate and governments that can afford to all over the world are taking precautions.  I wish I could ignore it and I still believed the world is flat and the planets and sun all revolve around the earth.

[Chris]

All Grumpy Old Guy did was reference some scientific data from 2 highly respected agencies.  This is factual data that can't be disputed.  It is just a measure of temperature.  You can extrapolate whatever you like from this data.  Ignore it if you'd like.  Major decisions and expenditures are already being made to protect infrastructure based on data like this.  It is not a political issue.  It can't be disputed.  The world is warming at an alarming rate and governments that can afford to all over the world are taking precautions.  I wish I could ignore it and I still believed the world is flat and the planets and sun all revolve around the earth.

Maybe you and the GoG, the only two of you around here who eat this stuff up, true believers, can start your own "Fantasy Climate League".  You can exchange imaginary carbon credits, watch for the next big flood somewhere and blame humans for it, exchange thermometer data from your own backyards, go to the beach together and measure the current sea level.  Too bad we don't have a "Science Fiction" or Science Fantasy" category on this forum, these chicken little climate change posts should all be there.   Chris

[knittychick]

Make that three 'of you around here who eat this stuff up.' Apeman and Grumpy Old Guy do a fine job of representing the scientific consensus regarding climate change. I'm guessing there might even be a few more 'true believers' on MyFolsom. 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Hi knitty,  appreciate your comments.  It will be interesting to see how much real life evidence it will take to get some people to actually accept the idea that climate change is real.  They've always said "prove it".  Well...empirical proof is appearing all the time now.  Things like high temperature records being broken (by significant amounts now), disappearing glaciers, tidal flooding, changing animal migration patterns, arctic ice levels lowest ever recorded, Greenland starting to become actually green with flora, etc. 

 

As stated before, it's too late to affect changes for the short term, but the planet will survive just fine.  The problem will be how societies, nations, and peoples react and respond to the changes.  My sense is that some of it will be fairly ugly, and all of it will be incredibly expensive.  Once our kids figure out what's happened, they're going to be really upset.

[Chris]

You forgot to put this in your post title........

 

"Warmest February Ever Recorded...Since 1880...!"

 

Going way back there in time now are you GoG....!

 

This is where your AGW "proof" problem therein lies....  You guys are too short sighted....!   You think in decades, I think in hundreds of thousands of years, millions of years, hundreds of millions of years.  All the evidence to prove your AGW theory is a load of BS is all right there in the geological record.   Chris 

[apeman45]

"You think in decades, I think in hundreds of thousands of years, millions of years, hundreds of millions of years."

 

Exactly Chris.  Your timeframes are exactly what is normal for temperature swings we are seeing in a very short time.  I see you are coming around in accepting that this is not normal.  Rises like this should normally happen over hundreds and thousands of years.  We are already seeing the consequences and they will only get worse. 

[The Average Joe]

... from 2 highly respected agencies.  This is factual data that can't be disputed.  It is just a measure of temperature...

Actually, APE, it can be disputed. Are you aware that the NOAA is being investigated by congress for misleading claims and data "adjustment?" And yes, it is a measurement of temperature. That can be altered (and has been) to fit a preconceived agenda. That is not science. The temperature IS warming (as far as we know). However, there is no way to differentiate natural processes from man made. None. There is a THEORY about CO2 being the driver, but frankly, the data does not fit well with the theory.

 

Were you also aware that the former head of NASA is an ideologue (and the father of AGW). He was and is far more of a politician than a scientist.

 

As for the NOAA adjustments, "

 

Of the 300 letter signers, 150 had doctorates in a related field. Signers also included: 25 climate or atmospheric scientists, 23 geologists, 18 meteorologists, 51 engineers, 74 physicists, 20 chemists and 12 economists. Additionally, one signer was a Nobel Prize winning physicist and two were astronauts.

NOAA scientists upwardly adjusted temperature readings taken from the engine intakes of ships to eliminate the “hiatus” in global warming from the temperature record.

 

NOAA then claimed that releasing the scientists data and correspondence on this issue was confidential and refused to release it despite a COngressional subpoena to do so. THAT is not science. Congress responded, "“Contrary to NOAA’s public comments, it is not the position of NOAA to determine what is, or is not, responsive to the committee’s investigation or whether certain communications are confidential,”

 

Nor is NOAA unified. "Smith also cited "whistleblowers" who provided information appearing to show the study was pushed to publication "despite the concerns and objections of a number of NOAA scientists ... potentially violating NOAA's scientific integrity policies."

 

Check out the "adjusted" temperature graph vs the raw data graph here (or read the article as well):  http://www.telegraph...ng-figures.html

 

ADJUSTED:

 

 

RAW DATA

 

 

 

Nope nothing fishy here. And not surprisingly, ALL historical adjustments are down, and all recent adjustments are up, which of course leads to a steeper increase.

[The Average Joe]

Here is another visual representation of how the adjusted data varies to promote AGW from the raw data. See, they don't like what the raw data says, so they recompute it by varying methods until it becomes coherent with their beliefs. Again, not science. Lower older measurements, raise newer, and bingo! "rate" of increase jumps.

 

 

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Joe,  please provide the evidence that NOAA and NASA have been faking the tidal flooding images, the disappearing glaciers, and changing animal migration patterns.  Oh, and where are they hiding all that Arctic ice that seems to be missing?  Maybe it's in a warehouse in New Jersey? 

 

Remember, as empirical evidence grows, your argument regarding misrepresented numbers becomes irrelevant.

[Chris]

 Oh, and where are they hiding all that Arctic ice that seems to be missing?  Maybe it's in a warehouse in New Jersey? 

 

 

Maybe look down.......?  I mean all the way down to the Antarctic....?   Again, you mislead the non science folks here by omission.....   All the data please, not just the data that supports your political agenda disguised as a science problem.   Chris

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Ape - your explanation above is really good about how temperature variations that used to occur over millions of years are now occurring over hundreds of years.  And it's primarily the years since the beginning of the industrial revolution.  Folks who don't think GW is human caused will have to propose another reason for it.

[apeman45]

They can only attack the data. Anyone that is familiar with scientific modeling knows that anomalies are factored into the results.  Here is a recent article on how the climate clowns at the NOAA verify their results.  Deniers will find 1 station out of thousands to try and refute the whole system.  The scientists account for this and make adjustments.  

 

What is scary is I can see substantial changes with my own 2 eyes.  I'm a skier and backpacker and the Sierra snowpack and yearly melt are drastically changing from where they were 20-30 years ago.  There is Sierra flora and fauna on the verge of extinction primarily due to climate change. This is not supposed to happen in a human lifetime but over 100's if not thousands of years.  Never happened before without something like a asteroid strike or a huge eruption.

 

http://www.theguardi...ser-to-pristine