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Brazil Rain Forest Burning


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#1 UncleVinnys

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 06:19 AM

The Amazon rain forest supplies about 20% of the world's oxygen.
Burning it would seriously impact life on this planet.

 

Brazil's climate change-denying officials call outrage over Amazon fires "sensationalist"

 

https://www.cbsnews....sensationalist/

 

Bolsonaro, a right-wing populist, has dismissed protections for the Amazon rainforest — a vast ecosystem known as the "lungs of the planet" — as a barrier to economic development.

 

Environmentalists say humans are the root cause of these Amazon fires — many were deliberately set to clear the forest for large-scale agriculture, though wind and heat helped them spread. Now, the Brazilian government is defending itself as activists and political leaders around the world are seeking urgent action.

 

Can you see what happens when a not-that-smart leader destroys
the environment for short-term profits?

 



#2 Chris

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 06:31 AM

As I recall, because I do follow this subject, that the same thing was going on under left wing leadership there. What you don't realize is that this is an economic and social problem. Too many people who are hungry. They go hungry, will starve to death, if they don't clear the land and plant corn or other crops. They also cut the hardwood trees down to sell. Often trees from"protected forests". Has nothing to do with right or left. Has everything to do with whether or not you eat today.

.

 


#3 The Average Joe

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 08:40 AM

Both of you are arguing over a non-issue.  The rain forests are not burning any more than a typical year. The following photo so widely shared (even by heads of state) was of fires from 2003.  https://pbs.twimg.co...pg&name=900x900

 

And this is straight from NASA who started this nonsense by posting pictures of the fires:

 

" ...However, in July and August, activity typically increases due to the arrival of the dry season. Many people use fire to maintain farmland and pastures or to clear land for other purposes. Typically, activity peaks in early September and mostly stops by November.

 

As of August 16, 2019, an analysis of NASA satellite data indicated that total fire activity across the Amazon basin this year has been close to the average in comparison to the past 15 years. "

 

Whole story here:    https://earthobserva...fires-in-brazil


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"We will not solve our problems by electing the right people.  We will only solve our problem by making 

it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing" -Milton Friedman

 


 


#4 UncleVinnys

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 08:44 AM

I agree that it's a complex problem.
We'd have to get into "
the greater good for mankind" type arguments to wrestle with this one.
And the much dreaded idea of a World Government.

 

Very much like the ozone depleting chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) that would also damage the earth.

These have major consequences for viability of life on the planet.



#5 UncleVinnys

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 08:53 AM

Both of you are arguing over a non-issue.  The rain forests are not burning any more than a typical year.

 

Respectfully disagree.

This is the first time there was a Brazilian head of state who actively encourages burning of the forests.

 

Seems this is very much like the right-wing argument against universal health care.
The opposition comes from "
who pays?"

Same thing here. Land grabbers benefit.

Who pays?

Ocean life pays with mass death of krill, fishes, sea life.

Humans suffer from asthma, lung diseases, shorter life spans.

 

Wonder if it's worth it.

Gee, maybe Trump should buy Brazil!

(Nah! He would burn it down too!")



#6 The Average Joe

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 08:54 AM

2 states in Brazil DO have more fires than usual, but others have less.  Eco warriors focus on the 2 worse to support their agenda and cause panic.  The who;e story is much less panic inducing and does not fit the narrative.  Should the starving farmers of any country get to raze forest? I guess  your answer would depend on if you are starving. I think it is a shame that the Amazon forest is being burned by man, but then again, much of north America has had been transformed (forests into farmland) over the last 300 years and has overall greened. AND the Earth is greening due to increased co2 sooooo..

I dont care for THIS government all that much (and I think its a comparative top tier one).  No way in hell I'm for a world government...but then again, I believe that that is what this whole climate change hysteria is all about; creating the mechanism to promote a world government.


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"We will not solve our problems by electing the right people.  We will only solve our problem by making 

it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing" -Milton Friedman

 


 


#7 UncleVinnys

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 09:01 AM

Wow, a CIVIL debate.
I'm encouraged!



#8 The Average Joe

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 09:14 AM

More from the NYT

 

"Natural fires in the Amazon are rare, and the majority of these fires were set by farmers preparing Amazon-adjacent farmland for next year’s crops and pasture.  Much of the land that is burning was not old-growth rain forest, but land that had already been cleared of trees and set for agricultural use."

 

And in fact, deforestation in the Amazon has dropped to 1/3 of what it was 20 years ago.

 

IF burning continued at this rate for the next 10 years, it would equal 1% of the Amazon rain forest.  The US has converted 25% of it's native forest into farmland (most in the late 1800's) but has been stable for almost 100 years.

 

So please, let's be rational and not buy into the sky is falling narrative.


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"We will not solve our problems by electing the right people.  We will only solve our problem by making 

it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing" -Milton Friedman

 


 


#9 UncleVinnys

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Posted 27 August 2019 - 05:26 PM

More from the NYT

 

 Much of the land that is burning was not old-growth rain forest, but land that had already been cleared of trees and set for agricultural use."

 

And in fact, deforestation in the Amazon has dropped to 1/3 of what it was 20 years ago.

 

IF burning continued at this rate for the next 10 years, it would equal 1% of the Amazon rain forest.  The US has converted 25% of it's native forest into farmland (most in the late 1800's) but has been stable for almost 100 years.

 

So please, let's be rational and not buy into the sky is falling narrative.

 

 

Sounds like more of the "apologist strategy" that helped the tobacco companies get away with murder for so many years.

Or the climate change deniers funded by the oil industry Koch brothers.     :BREAKDANCE:

Or the racist hate-mongers who claimed Obama was born in Kenya.   :fineprint:

 

                    :WEDGIE: 

 

All lies with a devious, selfish purpose.
All easily provable as deception of the most treacherous kind.   :fineprint:

 

These Enablers are almost as guilty as the corporate profiteers who spend millions on deception.

 

Thankfully, the truth eventually prevails

It's just a matter of how much damage is done in the meantime.

 

:USA:             :wave2:



#10 Chris

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Posted 27 August 2019 - 07:21 PM

Joe, as soon as a "liberal" or "socialist" is elected in Brazil the story will take a 180 degree turn next year when the same fires burn again, the same amount, the same thing, the same cause, the same outcome, history will repeat itself.  But the story will be spun in the liberal MSM on how "proactive" government is regarding the fires and what a great job the liberal or the socialist leader is doing to tackle the fire problem, the humanitarian problem, the social problem, and don't forget the war against global warming that the damage man does to the environment.....!   Yep, same occurrence, different story spun depending on the political affiliation of the leader/government.  Just wait and see, I will be spot on once again.  Chris


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#11 The Average Joe

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Posted 27 August 2019 - 07:59 PM

All lies with a devious, selfish purpose.
All easily provable as deception of the most treacherous kind.    :fineprint:

 

 

Ok. Easily prove that man is responsible for climate change. Show your work.

 

I'll wait....


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"We will not solve our problems by electing the right people.  We will only solve our problem by making 

it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing" -Milton Friedman

 


 


#12 UncleVinnys

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Posted 27 August 2019 - 09:31 PM

If you have already closed your mind to evidence, then no amount of documentation will ever satisfy you.

You may need to learn from personal experience, say when the floods water return to the central valley of California,

Florida is 50% under ware, and Folsom hits 125 degrees in the shade.

 

Well, Homey don't play dat!

Intelligent people have learned to trust in the findings of 99% of scientists who

have dedicated their life to uncovering the truth.

 

Tell me honestly: Who is more likely to be correct, decent, educated people,

or self-admitted psychopaths like Alex Jones who leads a rag-tag army

of disinformation?



#13 The Average Joe

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Posted 28 August 2019 - 02:49 PM

Still waiting for that "evidence."  Don't be lazy with your appeals to authority.  Bring the FACTS. Bring the data. SHOW YOUR WORK. I have done the work. I have looked at the data. I have run the numbers.  I don't need some talking head to spoon feed me tripe that they heard third hand.

SHOW YOUR WORK. Convince me that I am wrong.

 

By the way, not all who attend college are decent OR educated.


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"We will not solve our problems by electing the right people.  We will only solve our problem by making 

it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing" -Milton Friedman

 


 


#14 UncleVinnys

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Posted 29 August 2019 - 05:38 AM

Check out #9           :fineprint:

 

 

https://www.edf.org/...AiAAEgLozfD_BwE

 

  1. Simple chemistry – when we burn carbon-based materials, carbon dioxide (CO2) is emitted (research beginning in 1900s)
  2. Basic accounting of what we burn, and therefore how much CO2 we emit (data collection beginning in 1970s)
  3. Measuring CO2 in the atmosphere and trapped in ice to find that it's increasing, with levels higher than anything we've seen in hundreds of thousands of years (measurements beginning in 1950s)
  4. Chemical analysis of the atmospheric CO2 that reveals the increase is coming from burning fossil fuels (research beginning in 1950s)
  5. Basic physics that shows us that CO2 absorbs heat (research beginning in 1820s)
  6. Monitoring climate conditions to find that recent warming of the Earth is correlated to and follows rising CO2 emissions (research beginning in 1930s)
  7. Ruling out natural factors that can influence climate like the sun and ocean cycles (research beginning in 1830s)
  8. Employing computer models to run experiments of natural versus human-influenced simulations of Earth (research beginning in 1960s)
  9. Consensus among scientists who consider all previous lines of evidence and make their own conclusions (polling beginning in 1990s)

 

(Waiting for some trashy, biased report from Breitbart, Infowars, or the Koch Brothers)   :who-me:



#15 Chris

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Posted 29 August 2019 - 02:40 PM

Check out #9          

 

  1. Consensus among scientists who consider all previous lines of evidence and make their own conclusions (polling beginning in 1990s)

 

 

 

 

I am still waiting on that Ice Age we were promised in the 1970's by the same people......  They said it was going to get much colder and very soon....!  That was their "consensus".   By the way, you do realize that we are in a warming period in the middle of an Ice Age do you not....?  Yep, you, me, Slow, Aces, Joe, Rose and even Mays are all living in an Ice Age.  And we will die in one....  And so will our great, great, great, great, great, great Grandchildren.    Chris


.

 





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