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Climate Change & Sea Level Rise - Folsom Will Be Safe

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#91 apeman45

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 06:40 PM

Let's let Folsom Lake overflow instead of letting out all that water for flood control.  It will get rid of the homeless problem. The city of Sacramento could use a good cleansing.  I found some more benefits of global warming to add to Chris's list.  Funny he had a list about something he doesn't believe is real.

 

No more homeless people because we all know homeless people live by that guy in a van down by the river.  

People with gills like that guy in the movie Waterworld" will thrive.

Boating recreation opportunities will be greatly increased.

Real estate prices will increase because dry land will be at a premium.

The Trump Towers will be only 3 stories tall making Trump even richer.

You will be able to take a carnival cruise to the north pole and not worry about the extinct polar bears eating you.

Boundary disputes will be eliminated by the world war caused by diminishing resources.

Climate deniers will all be in prison.

No need to waste time at a tanning booth - just step outside for 30 seconds.



#92 2 Aces

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 06:52 PM

Hey ape, what age will you be when your fantasy *doomsday* happens? Be specific.



#93 GrumpyOldGuy

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 06:56 PM

Ape - :)



#94 Chris

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 07:18 PM

Ape - :)

Funny, but I bet your answer, if you so dare to even try to answer, to 600 million years of natural climate change, before Man even ever existed, vs 200 years of your so called "Man made", "Man induced", "Man responsible" climate change will be even more funny....!   I can't wait....!  Six Hundred million years of climate change even before we existed.....!    But yet in the last 200 years, Man took over and it's all about him, us....?   I think not.  How silly you Climate Clowns are, very silly.   Chris


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#95 2 Aces

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 07:49 PM

Some people believe in the myth of climate change. Some people believe in UFOs and they swear they were abducted. Some people believe in the Loch Ness monster and BigFoot. I recently saw Elvis on the golf course...he tried to hide behind an Oak tree, and then he just disappeared. I swear to God it's true. Yes I was drinking, but that's irrelevant. Myths and fraudulent stuff is all around us these days...and climate change is at the top of the list. And until it affects everyone in a meaningful way, you people need to zip it! Got it?

#96 apeman45

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:55 PM

"Hey ape, what age will you be when your fantasy *doomsday* happens? Be specific."

 

I'm pretty old so not a huge impact in my 20-30 years left but my "fantasies" are already being realized as changes are obviously already happening in my lifetime.  But I don't have a "it won't really matter to me" attitude and I have a daughter and I give a crap about future generations.  We are not that many generations removed from the world is flat belief.  That's how ridiculous the climate deniers appear to rational people.  I'm sorry to tell you guys that you are in the vast minority in your beliefs.  You have to refute science to support your belief system.  I just have to read scientific journals written by mildly intelligent people with PHDs to support my belief system.



#97 Chris

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 09:08 PM

"Hey ape, what age will you be when your fantasy *doomsday* happens? Be specific."

 

I'm pretty old so not a huge impact in my 20-30 years left but my "fantasies" are already being realized as changes are obviously already happening in my lifetime.  But I don't have a "it won't really matter to me" attitude and I have a daughter and I give a crap about future generations.  We are not that many generations removed from the world is flat belief.  That's how ridiculous the climate deniers appear to rational people.  I'm sorry to tell you guys that you are in the vast minority in your beliefs.  You have to refute science to support your belief system.  I just have to read scientific journals written by mildly intelligent people with PHDs to support my belief system.

So, you totally believe that the past 600 million years of climate change has been usurped by the last 200 years of humans putting a little CO2 into the atmosphere, over the massive volcanism events, over the Sun's influence, over slight orbital changes that make a very big deal...?   Come on Dude....!   You have a Geology degree...!   Put it to work...!   Chris 


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#98 The Average Joe

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 09:24 PM

Chris -  Sadly, the breitbart.com article leaves out critical information and is terribly misleading because of it.  I will fill in the blanks so you know the WHOLE story.

 

Many US corporations are in businesses that will be affected in some way by climate change.  In some cases, the effects will be positive, and in some cases the effects will be negative.

This is not what it is about. It is about silencing dissent. You really need to look into the main character pushing this Jagadish Shukla. And Ape, glad you read stuff by "real" scientists.  Funny thing though, activists control who gets published, and there is plenty of evidence of "real" scientists who don't tow the line being black balled from publication/tenure, etc. That is not science my friend, that is propaganda. When you declare the debate over and prohibit those that have a differing opinion from submitting their theories to scutiny, one must ask what you are afraid of. Silencing critics does more to bolster the critic's views than refuting them with EVIDENCE. When the truth is on your side, you have nothing to fear. However, speaking truth in a land of lies is treason.

 

Everything you need to know about the strategy of RICO and going after "deniers" can be found here. In a 2012 meeting the Climate Accountability Institute came up with this bold plan.

 

http://www.climateac...y Rpt Oct12.pdf

 

If you are too lazy to read the whole thing, an overview is here: https://nigguraths.w...2/rico-teering/


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one" — Thomas Paine, 𝘊𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘚𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 (1776)

 


#99 apeman45

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 09:31 PM

Chris I can't even pretend to have an intelligent discussion with someone who doesn't think mankind has had an impact on the earth the last 200 years.  I never said I had a degree in geology.  I majored in it but never graduated so now you guys can accuse me of being uneducated.  One of the things geology taught me was that things do change over billions of years.  Things are not supposed to have noticeable changes over 200 or even 500 years. That's why the geologic time scale is measured in units of millions of years ago. That's why geology is just one of the many sciences that support the argument that climate change is real.  You won't find any geologists buying oceanfront homes.  They know whats coming.



#100 GrumpyOldGuy

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 09:34 PM

Chris,  I'll answer, much to your chagrin. 

 

1)  On Feb 28th, I explained the math that clearly shows CO2 concentration is increasing 1500 times faster than it ever has in history...600 million years of history.  And this calculation used the data from the graphs that YOU provided.

 

2)  The reason this is of concern - In the past (as shown on the graphs that YOU provided), it took 100,000's of years for CO2 concentrations to change by significant amounts.  In those long periods of time, the global flora and fauna had time to adapt, evolve, and fit into the new environment.  Evolution was working.

 

3)  Today, the CO2 concentrations are increasing far more quickly than the flora and fauna (includes humans this time) can adapt, evolve, and fit into the new environment.  These rapid changes will create significant problems for people, societies, and for flora and fauna.

 

4)  You claim that humans can't possibly be responsible for the rapid increase of CO2.  But then you offer no other theory or reason that would explain the rapid increase of CO2 other than it's part of "the natural cycle".  The problem with this approach is there has never been a natural cycle where the CO2 concentrations have increased at the rates they are increasing today.  The graphs that YOU provided confirms it. 

 

Finally, this will be my last attempt to explain this to you.  If you're unwilling to accept these as facts, I can only conclude that for you ideology has trumped technology.  And you'll never be convinced.



#101 GrumpyOldGuy

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 10:47 PM

Joe,  I looked over the docs you posted.  Never heard of these folks.  IMO, the CAI seems like a collection of crackpots who get their kicks from causing trouble.  Since their meeting in 2012, haven't heard much from the CAI.  However,  I have read about some things that Exxon has done over the past couple decades to inject doubt into the climate change conversation.  Why would they do that?  Did they have information they thought might materially affect their business negatively?  If that information was to be made public, would the information affect their stock price?  My concern about this really has little to do with the climate change.  That's a different conversation.  I wonder if Exxon misled stock holders and investors regarding the impact of GW on their business performance.  The only way to find out may be a trial.  We'll see.  What is worrysome is that many large companies are willing to do anything to protect their business model.  Think GM (ignition switches), Takata (exploding airbag initiators), Volkswagen (emissions problems), etc.  I would bet a paycheck that the Koch brothers are trying to sew doubt in the GW conversation.        



#102 2 Aces

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 09:24 AM

If people choose to live in coastal areas, then they should learn to deal with hurricanes and occasional tidal surges. Suck it up. That's life on the coast. Those are pretty rare, but they happen. In your oh-my-God doomsday scenario, you suggest cities will disappear. IF you are right, then I guess in a few hundred years a lot of people will need to rent U-Haul trucks and move to higher ground. Bummer. But you also could be wrong, given that there's plenty of data that goes against you. But you don't care...you don't even admit or acknowledge that...you just cling to the data that agrees with your predetermined conclusion. Your dishonesty undercuts your attempt at presenting a compelling case.

If you were arguing your case in court, any sane judge would throw it out and give you a harsh lecture about *evidence vs opinion vs heresay* in the process. No offense.

#103 The Average Joe

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 10:22 AM

  Since their meeting in 2012, haven't heard much from the CAI. 

 

 

And yet their plan is being executed. Sue for libel. Check (Mann v Steyn) Try to get RICO against companies in the fossil fuel industry. Check. Try to get sympathetic Attorney Generals and state officials involved. Check. Try to marginalize opposing viewpoints. Check.


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one" — Thomas Paine, 𝘊𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘚𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 (1776)

 


#104 The Average Joe

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 10:29 AM

And here is some of the testimony of those calling for RICO. Really helps those that claim the manipulation of data has been going on FOR AGW. Oops! Your claim is that it is only going after corporations is naive at best. Read on.

 

 


Q. So what you’re telling me is, while you’re not aware of the specifics of RICO and how the law works, you think that what ExxonMobil specifically was doing was troubling and you wanted that stopped?

A. Correct.

Q. So what is climate denial? I’ll ask that.
A. What’s climate denial? Good question.

Activities that are intentionally misrepresenting what is known to be true about climate change so as to convince people that climate change is not, in fact, a reality.

Q. So climate denial broadly bothers you then?
A. Mischaracterization of the truth specifically intended to undermine the public’s well-being, yes, typically does bother me.

Q. Can you give me an example of these misrepresentations by ExxonMobil or others?
A. No, not off the top of my head.

There have been activities being funded by to American – the 9 American people and people worldwide.

Q. So you believe that someone knowingly misrepresenting a risk posed by climate change merits investigation?
A. Yes, I do.

Q. Okay. So if someone, for example, were to knowingly hide data indicating an increase in temperatures over the years, that would merit investigation?
A. Say it again, please.
Q. If someone were to hide or misrepresent or deceive the public relating to data which showed an increase in global temperatures over time, that would merit investigation?

A. It would be — I suppose it depends on who it is.  But, yes, it would certainly be a deception. And as such, it would be an act that, in my view, ought to be exposed.

Q. So you said hiding an increase in temperatures would be a knowing deception, depending on who it is. I believe that’s what you said a  minute ago; is that correct?
A. Sure.
Q. What if you knowingly hid a decrease in 20 global temperatures? Would that be a knowing deception?
A. Sure.

Q. I have one question — I’m sorry, Thomas, and Professor Maibach — I forgot.
I want to follow up on one thing. Mr. Hardin had asked you about individuals, if they knowingly deceived the American — is – knowingly deceived the American people about the risk of climate change is the offense or what warrants investigation, right?
A. In my view.
Q. Okay. So if Christy and Spenser[sic]  — they  keep the satellite temperature record. If they were found to have increased — I’m sorry, not increased — hidden an increase in the temperature in the satellite record, would that warrant investigation as knowingly deceiving the American people?

A. They — they as individual climate scientists, if they are fudging their data, then I would say, yes, that would be investigation worthy.
But I wouldn’t think that that would be investigation worthy by the Federal Government. I would think it would be investigation worthy by their funders or by the journals that had published their work.

MR. MONCURE: You’ve already made it clear that you’re not an expert on RICO.  A. Correct.
MR. HORNER: But he is an expert on what he wrote. He’s the world’s leading expert on what he wrote. And he wrote that, “knowingly deceiving the American people about the risk of climate change warrants investigation.”

BY MR. HORNER:

Q. And I’m saying, it’s not just — I mean, of all the people who know, it would seem to be climate scientists as opposed to CEOs is my premise. So as opposed to going after CEOs, how about a scientist?

If they knowingly deceived the public by hiding an increase in temperatures, does that also warrant investigation? That’s my question.
A. It does.

 

And here comes the payoff!

 

Q. Okay. What if they hide a decline in 6 temperatures? Does that warrant an investigation?
A. Any knowing deception warrants – in science warrants an investigation.


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one" — Thomas Paine, 𝘊𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘚𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 (1776)

 


#105 Chris

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 12:25 PM

Chris,  I'll answer, much to your chagrin. 

 

So you believe that 600 million years of climate change, before man existed, CO2 at 4000 ppm, CO2 at 250 ppm, CO2 at 2000 ppm, high ocean levels, low ocean levels, ice ages come and gone countless times, is trumped by the last 200 years of Man burning fossil fuels.....?   All your rate of change argument is BS.  It's the only straw you Climate Clowns can grasp at.  You are dealing with too short a time period these last few hundred years and making broad conclusions of disaster.  Do all of the calculations you want, play the smartest guy on the forum, select only data that supports your conclusion, talk down to anyone who disagrees with you.  In the end, you have to prove that Man is responsible for recent climate change and you simply can't.  History, the science, the data is not on your side.   Chris


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